D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[Remathilis]

It's probably not an oversight. There are only three martial weapons with the Light property to begin with, and Shadow Monks are supposed to be ninjas anyway.

I was so happy monks got their shortsword back. I wager bards will get their rapiers as well. As for druid and scimitar, well... warden is infinitely superior to magician anyway.

 

[mellored]

As for druid and scimitar, well... warden is infinitely superior to magician anyway.

Moon druid would probably go magician. They don't need armor or weapons.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I think the monk now can easily afford 16 wis and dex and 12 or 13 in con. If they really are concerned about their hp, they should start with the tough feat.

But they can just outlast most opponents by using dodge and bonus action unarmed strike at level 1 now.

1d6+3 damage, 15 or 16 AC and 9 hp
and disadvantage against you is not the worst you can bring to the table. Oh. And ever ready to grapple or shove with that unarmed strike. Take tavern brawler and do damage on top.

Ok that sounds cool.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I do really like them expanding Deflect Attacks, just like I hoped they would. It's just amazingly overtuned for low-level play, while at higher-level everything hits multiple times to get around exactly this sort of a thing (which is also why Deflect Energy comes way too late, because at lv13 you're no longer dealing with one imp spitting fire at you, it's a dozen).

 

[Mephista]

IMO, a shortbow would fit the fantasy a lot better than a hand crossbow.

But maybe keeping the fastest guys ranged attack to 30' is appropriate.

Shortbow is a simple weapon, so Monks already get that too.

 

[Vikingkingq]

You can Dodge as main action and attack as bonus action through the early levels...

That's true, but you are sacrificing an attack's worth of damage per turn, and two attacks a turn if you either dip or get Weapon Master.

I like where a Rogue dip can be really useful for Monk, but it's not required to function. Let's look at the impact of delaying your Monk progress by 1 level (and bold the winner)...

Monk1/Rogue1 vs Monk2 - multi doesn't have Ki abilities (but is a goddamn terror with 3 attacks + sneak attack)
Monk2/Rogue1 vs Monk3 - full has subclass already (and Deflect Attacks omg)
Monk3/Rogue1 vs Monk4 - full gets ASI/feat
Monk4/Rogue1 vs Monk5 - full has Extra Attack (and Stunning Strike)
Monk5/Rogue1 vs Monk6 - full has magical hands

So the Rogue is unquestionably ahead on lv2. At lv6+, when Monk is no longer getting something every level, the Rogue Monk is mostly just losing out on 1 Ki, so this is another time where they are likely better, but by this time, an extra attack (plus 1d6 from sneak attack) isn't as big of a deal.

Expertise is pretty damn tempting, but at least Skill Expertise exists if you want it for just one specific skill.

You raise a good point, although I had forgotten about the Weapon Master feat, so there is a way to get Nick without dipping and delaying your Monk progression, albeit one that comes online at Level 4.

No, so this is just business as usual. I always viewed Monk unarmed attacks as being purely for the bonus action attacks.

Actually, now that I think about it, the change to Grapple and Shove does kind of give the regular Unarmed Attack a purpose. A somewhat situational one, but undeniably effective.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Possibly an oversight.

But "Martial Weapons that have the Light property" includes Hand Crossbow.

TBH, I think the oversight is probably going to end up being the Rogue's Proficiency being "Martial Weapons that have the Finesse Property" rather than "Martial Weapons that have the Finesse or Light Property," when we see the print version.

 

[Vikingkingq]

True, but let's take a step back. Why would a Monk even want to use a Hand Crossbow? A Sling has the same range, thanks to the Martial Arts Die it does the same damage, and it isn't constrained by the Loading property. Or if you want something that's more on-brand stylistically, mixes well with the Monk focus on Unarmed Strikes, and only has a modestly shorter normal range increment, just wear a bandoleer of Darts.

Well, the Crossbow Expert feat is pretty tasty and you can't get that for Slings or Darts.

 

[Mephista]

Good direction for the Monk, but... I'm still worried. They don't have any exploration features or skill bumps, when all the other martials are getting some. Even Barbarian and Fighter do.

Lots of new tricks, but without using BA for attacks, we're looking at the worst damage from a martial in the game. Rogue and Ranger with Sneak Attack and Marks, Fighter, Paladin and Barbarians with great weapons all outdo basic Monk punch all while keeping their BA open too. So, I'm worried that NOT using BA to attack or use Flurry is going to become a trap 90% of the time.

 

[mellored]

Shortbow is a simple weapon, so Monks already get that too.

You are correct.

But it doesn't count as a "monk weapon" like hand crossbows do.

So a d12 hand crossbow that can stunning strike.