D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[Kurotowa]

Everyone with two Light weapons gets to make a Bonus action extra attack.
New Crossbow Expert gives the two-weapon fighting style's benefit.
Monk keeps making this monk weapon's damage die bigger.
Monk can now Stunning Strike with their crossbows...

Let me be clear: I don't think Hand Crossbows are intended to be Monk Weapons. I think it's worded badly and intended to be "Simple Melee Weapons, and Martial Melee Weapons with the Light property". Not "Simple Melee Weapons, and all Martial Weapons with the Light property". So I wouldn't get my heart set on any builds just yet.

 

[Vikingkingq]

But is it good for Monks? The 2014 Crossbow Expert gives an extra attack as a Bonus Action, and Monks already get that. But that's probably not even valid, because there's a 2024 Crossbow Expert with an entirely different set of benefits. Which are, let's see... Ignore Loading, Firing in Melee, and Dual Wielding. None of which look particularly attractive to a Monk, IMO.

Let me give an example. A Rogue/Monk can use Dagger for their Attack Action (and eventually Extra Attack), then use the Hand Crossbow for their Nick Attack, then Bonus Action Unarmed Attack or one of your defensive options. Crossbow Expert means that the Nick Attack gets +Dex mod, means that Loading isn't a problem once Extra Attack comes online, and Firing in Melee is handy for when you're in melee range because of the Dagger/Unarmed attacks.

Also, I'd lay decent odds that once they clear up the wording, Monks will have proficiency with Hand Crossbows but Hand Crossbows won't count as Monk Weapons. Which is to say, no scaling with the Martial Arts Die.

As I've said, I'd put my money on Rogue proficiency wording changing instead.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Let me be clear: I don't think Hand Crossbows are intended to be Monk Weapons.

Oh, I agree. But you were asking about the goodness of them for Monks, and crossbow monks seem fine, in a white room I don't care about synergy with my party I can always run away and plink way.

 

[Leatherhead]

Even if they didn't have hand crossbows they would still have daggers.

It is weird that they don't have slings and darts though.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Even if they didn't have hand crossbows they would still have daggers.

Yeah, but then you'd have to pick up TWF style from somewhere (Crossbow Expert gives that to crossbows), and Archery doesn't do anything for thrown (it applies to ranged weapons, not ranged weapon attacks, so thrown melee weapons are out of luck).

It is weird that they don't have slings and darts though.

Oh yeah, it's... Simple melee weapons only... huh.

 

[mellored]

But is it good for Monks?

Attacking from 30' is worth a feat (including bonus action). Especially since it comes with +1 Dex.

But not good enough that all monks will go that way.

The Monk's best ranged option is a few throwing Daggers.

Sharpshooter + Dagger is not shabby.

+1 Dex, Long range, ignore cover, and use in melee (which does nothing), and scaling die size.

You won't get the +Dex for the TWF bonus action attack, but stunning stike at 60' range is solid.

Also, I'd lay decent odds that once they clear up the wording, Monks will have proficiency with Hand Crossbows but Hand Crossbows won't count as Monk Weapons.

It may have been a mistake, but I'm not finding any issues with it either.

So I say keep it. It's not unbalanced so why not have it as an option?

 

[Mephista]

So I say keep it. It's not unbalanced so why not have it as an option?

Because, if they wanted ranged monk weapons, they would have kept Simple Ranged Weapons instead of specifying Simple Melee. It seems like its straight jacketing Monk into melee type, no ranged.

 

[mellored]

Let me give an example. A Rogue/Monk can use Dagger for their Attack Action (and eventually Extra Attack), then use the Hand Crossbow for their Nick Attack, then Bonus Action Unarmed Attack or one of your defensive options

not quite

You can use the crossbow for the attack action.
And the dagger for the nick action.
Then bonus action whatever.

Note rogue 2 can also bonus action disengage. So multiclass just adds melee punch as an option.

Only fighter 9 can nick with a hand crossbow.

 

[Vikingkingq]

not quite

You can use the crossbow for the attack action.
And the dagger for the nick action.
Then bonus action whatever.

Note rogue 2 can also bonus action disengage. So multiclass just adds melee punch as an option.

Only fighter 9 can nick with a hand crossbow.

Whoops, got that wrong. So Crossbow Expert is not as good, then.

 

[mellored]

Because, if they wanted ranged monk weapons, they would have kept Simple Ranged Weapons instead of specifying Simple Melee. It seems like its straight jacketing Monk into melee type, no ranged.

Daggers give monks a 20' ranged option.

Hand Crossbow + feat makes it 30'.

I don't see any problem with that.