WotC Third party, DNDBeyond and potential bad side effects.

[Micah Sweet]

No they don't. They want to play Level Up. Level Up is not D&D. It is it's own game based on and adapted from D&D made by someone who is not the owner or publisher of D&D. SlyFlourish's friends want to play D&D-- the D&D that they can find on D&D Beyond. SlyFlourish does not want to play that. They thus need to convince their friends why playing this other game could be fun. It's not WotC's job or responsibility to help them do that.

You're wrong. D&D is far more than whatever current ruleset WotC is peddling, in every way except legal (and even with that if you're talking previous editions). D&D Beyond is NOT the entirety of D&D. Every broadly 5e-compatible 3pp game and the vast majority of the OSR, for starters, are D&D.

 

[Oofta]

Slyflourish wants to play D&D. Everything in this conversation is about D&D.

If I suggest to my group that I want to play the D&D variant set in modern times, space fantasy or even gothic horror light with Ravenloft and my group isn't interested, that's not DDB's fault if the group disagrees. Even if it is all D&D.

 

[Zaukrie]

As someone pointed out..... How is it a deal breaker not to allow filtering in a tool, when you can't automatically filter books? Set the rules, have the players follow the rules, just like if there wasn't a tool.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I suppose I'm looking at it from a more compassionate and less pragmatic angle. This is a person with a real problem, and I don't think telling them "it's a skill issue" is helpful or kind.

Telling them "I feel ya, and agree with your feelings on WotC" isn't helping either. That will do absolutely nothing to solve SlyFlourish's problem. Is it more "kind"? Sure. A pat on the back in sympathy always is. But I do not tend to do that here on the boards... extend sympathy to people who know full well why they have the problem they do and are choosing not to solve it.

The solution to SlyFlourish getting their friends to play Level Up is to convince them why playing Level Up can be fun, even without having D&D Beyond. It is NOT to come onto EN World and merely say "It's a shame WotC made such a good product that my friends only want to us that and not play this other thing."

 

[Micah Sweet]

@SlyFlourish, I understand your concerns and I like your list of "ought-to-do"s.

OTOH, I overall think that them offering 3PP on DDB is a Good Thing for the market.

It's not that I think you're wrong. It's that I think that it's BOTH beneficial AND has the downsides that you mention. The only difference between me and you is that I think that it's ultimately BETTER to do it than it is to not do it.

I just think that they should offer a LOT MORE publishers on DDB (and some top-rated DMsGuild stuff too.

AND, I think that DDB needs a UA overhaul. Specifically, it needs some of its incomplete areas completed, and it need the Content Toggles that you've described (among many other QoL improvements). If they can make some of your other suggestions work when they do that, that would be good too.

As far as WotC being good shepherds for the industry goes, well, that's also mixed. They could be worse than they are, and they could be better. I think that they're trying to do it well, but the nature of corporate BS makes it so that they sometimes fail (and fail hard) due to those sorts of pressures. That's a bigger problem in the world (IMO) than it is in our industry. WotC is relatively benevolent by world-corporation standards. Heck, they're better business partners for my Comic and Game store than Marvel is, for example!

I think WotC is trying to make as much money for WotC as possible. That might not interfere with being a good shepherd for the game, but I don't see how it helps, and it's IMO their most important priority, more important than making the best game they can. That isn't a guarantee of corporate abuse, but it certainly points the way. I consider it a good sign that internal WotC politics are allegedly so fictionalized. Otherwise, who knows what they'd do?

 

[DEFCON 1]

You're wrong. D&D is far more than whatever current ruleset WotC is peddling, in every way except legal (and even with that if you're talking previous editions). D&D Beyond is NOT the entirety of D&D. Every broadly 5e-compatible 3pp game and the vast majority of the OSR, for starters, are D&D.

Well, then YOU go talk to SlyFlourish's friends and tell them that. It ain't ME you need to convince. It's their friends who are saying "Level Up is not the D&D we wish to play."

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The issue with DnD beyond is it doesn't let a DM filter options so if you buy the thing through a micro transaction it's on your sheet. It's not something the DM gets to approve or veto, it's on your sheet.
Of course can say no you can't use that during the game, "but we are using DnD beyond and it was available, I already spent the money," is going to be a friction point for a lot of DMs.
I'm assuming that WOTC is assuming most DMs will cave.
Could be wrong but I cancelled my DnD beyond subscription at the start of the OGL saga anyway. Hasbro doesn't need my money and there are so many better 5e resources from 3PP, and other systems to play.

I am assuming a non hostile relationship between the Dm and the player and that the player will be polite enough to accept the DM forbidding the thing. For that matter, I find it somewhat incredible that a player would be so rude to not clear an optional thing with the DM before adding it to the character sheet.
That said, that the DM (or the players) cannot filter the content is a flaw in the web sites service. It is something that will have to be addressed over anyway as it will become major pain point to the users if they continue with the current system where everything presented to the user whether they own it or not.
It is a pain point to those that want a more curated experience and it will turn off many potential users.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Telling them "I feel ya, and agree with your feelings on WotC" isn't helping either. That will do absolutely nothing to solve SlyFlourish's problem. Is it more "kind"? Sure. A pat on the back in sympathy always is. But I do not tend to do that here on the boards... extend sympathy to people who know full well why they have the problem they do and are choosing not to solve it.

The solution to SlyFlourish getting their friends to play Level Up is to convince them why playing Level Up can be fun, even without having D&D Beyond. It is NOT to come onto EN World and merely say "It's a shame WotC made such a good product that my friends only want to us that and not play this other thing."

WotC made (or rather, bought out and now own) an easy and convenient product. That is only one metric, and not the most important for everyone. DDB still has a lot of holes (as evidenced by people's complaints above), and furthermore represents a kind of corporate monolith not everyone wants to support.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think WotC is trying to make as much money for WotC as possible. That might not interfere with being a good shepherd for the game, but I don't see how it helps, and it's IMO their most important priority, more important than making the best game they can. That isn't a guarantee of corporate abuse, but it certainly points the way. I consider it a good sign that internal WotC politics are allegedly so fictionalized. Otherwise, who knows what they'd do?

I can't disagree with you here. Not a bit.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, then YOU go talk to SlyFlourish's friends and tell them that. It ain't ME you need to convince. It's their friends who are saying "Level Up is not the D&D we wish to play."

You're the one who said "Level Up is not D&D". I was correcting you. And unless the hidden context of that statement is "in a legal sense", I am right to do so. Is that what you meant?