D&D General I hate five-foot passages!

[Lanefan]

The players were fine. The slaadi were not. The result was a very, very boring combat where the slaadi could only attack with disadvantage, and the players had advantage to hit them... or the slaadi didn't attack at all and the players ranged combat them to death.

Why did the Slaadi always have disadvantage; and why did the PCs always have advantage?

The Slaadi could have hidden around the corners and shredded any PC that walked through the door.

This is the same adventure that put grimlocks (without missile weapons) in a room with arrow slits that the party could see through. Guess what isn't affected by cover? Casting fireball through an arrow slit.

Good tactics on the PCs' part, there.

 

[Zaukrie]

Why did the Slaadi always have disadvantage; and why did the PCs always have advantage?

The Slaadi could have hidden around the corners and shredded any PC that walked through the door.

Good tactics on the PCs' part, there.

Why would the PCs walk thru the door? Also, if they did, one reaction per round....so multiple PCs could go in, attack, and leave and not get attacked.

Merric made it clear the issue was there was nothing good for the slaadi to do.

 

[MerricB]

The Slaadi could have hidden around the corners and shredded any PC that walked through the door.

If the slaad are adjacent to the doorway, so that they can attack the character in the doorway, the PCs can potentially see them. (Or it becomes Stealth vs Perception - and the Slaad have a +1 and +2 bonus to Stealth vs PC perceptions of a little higher).

If the slaad are not adjacent to the doorway, so that they can properly hide, a PC can enter the room, attack with a ranged attack, then retreat into the passageway.

Cheers,
Merric

 

[MarkB]

This is a level 9 party. The rogue on his own is dealing 6d6+6 damage every turn, and focused fire from the rest of group is doing more on top of that.

Closing the door wanders into a lot of problems with rules interpretations. I posted about it before, but in a little more detail: at what point do you move from readied actions to roll initiative again?

If you start an encounter where both sides are aware of the others presence, do you allowed readied actions before initiative begins? The answer is "no". You must move into initiative.

Now, when do you drop out of initiative?

If both sides have been sitting looking at the door for five minutes, has initiative stopped?

(This is also turning into a really boring combat as both sides are waiting for someone to open the door).

Door opens... but both sides have readied actions. Who acts first?

(And honestly, a good trick is the AC 20+ Paladin takes the Dodge action, moves up to open the door, then moves back).

And we're going through all these tactical and rules convolutions to deal with a situation that is just making the combat drawn out. It's not really an interesting tactical puzzle.

Cheers,
Merric

So, from what I'm reading across the thread, the slaadi have no reason at all to be in this room since they got there by accident, the PCs don't need anything from this room so they've got no reason to be there either, and it's a poorly-executed encounter featuring melee-only combatants on one side and a choke point. The fact that they're large and can't even enter the choke point without penalties is just the icing on the cake.

Just chalk this up to being a nothing encounter that was terribly thought-out in every respect. No need to focus on the five-foot-squareness aspect of it above all else.

 

[tetrasodium]

Why did the Slaadi always have disadvantage; and why did the PCs always have advantage?

The Slaadi could have hidden around the corners and shredded any PC that walked through the door.

Good tactics on the PCs' part, there.

It hasn't really been answered with the explicit mechanical rule, so here goes...

Squeezing rules. pulling this from Google on my phone so it could be wrong, but it looks accurate.

While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.

 

[MerricB]

So, from what I'm reading across the thread, the slaadi have no reason at all to be in this room since they got there by accident, the PCs don't need anything from this room so they've got no reason to be there either, and it's a poorly-executed encounter featuring melee-only combatants on one side and a choke point. The fact that they're large and can't even enter the choke point without penalties is just the icing on the cake.

Just chalk this up to being a nothing encounter that was terribly thought-out in every respect. No need to focus on the five-foot-squareness aspect of it above all else.

Within the context of the adventure, the players do need to clear the room to reach a portal.

 

[TheSword]

I'm working up a level 18 adventure and they'll be facing a few CR 5 creatures. According to TCE, two CR 5 creatures are an appropriate challenge for one 18th level character. I was extremely surprised by this, so we'll see how it goes.

A solo character. Hmm. Possibly. For a party I highly doubt that will work even 8 x CR 5 creatures. I’m not convinced two CR 20 creatures would challenge my level 15 party

 

[FrozenNorth]

Red slaad squeezes into the gap the makes up to 3 grapple attempts on someone it can reach (doesn’t suffer disadvantage) then pulls the lead character back into the room.

The blue slaad munches away on the grappled lead character. If the lead character can’t be grappled in a round or two, the red slaad backs away so it’s regeneration kicks in while the blue slaad has a go.

That would be my approach. Assuming there’s no obvious way round to the side.

If that still doesn’t work, both slaad step to either side of the door where they can’t be seen from the back and then read attacks when someone steps forward.

You forgot the point where the slaad closes the door and holds it closed after pulling the lead character inside for the blu slaad to munch.

Teamwork makes the dream work!

 

[TheSword]

Yeah. It's often what I do - but then see incredibly bad rolls.

The characters have much superior Athletics/Acrobatics scores than the slaad, btw. (Slaad +3 and +5 vs fighter +9).

Cheers,
Merric

+5 vs +9 the slaad has a 30% chance of getting the grapple on each hit, so a pretty good chance of succeeding. As a DM I’d take those odds, just to see the look on the players face. You only need a single check and then it can easily drag the player back. If it doesn’t succeed well the players get a victory and an interesting tactical win.

I still think passwall would be just as a good though

 

[MarkB]

+5 vs +9 the slaad has a 30% chance of getting the grapple on each hit, so a pretty good chance of succeeding. As a DM I’d take those odds, just to see the look on the players face. You only need a single check and then it can easily drag the player back. If it doesn’t succeed well the players get a victory and an interesting tactical win.

Yeah, and squeezing doesn't impose disadvantage on ability checks, so the tactic isn't penalised by close quarters. It only takes one successful check, and then the creature can drag the front-liner into the room and shut the door.