D&D General D&D's Utter Dominance Is Good or Bad Because...

[Thomas Shey]

If you include 3rd party support, 5E is even more anemic compared to 3E.

But huge compared to almost everyone else. The only ones even vaguely comparable I can think of are the OSR sphere, Pathfinder (both, notably, D&D offshoots) and Savage Worlds.

 

[Kurotowa]

Maybe someone who has cash, clout, or charisma should attempt to make something other than a D&D-killer.

There are other genre. Heck there are other major subgenre of fantasy.

Going with fantasy helps pluck off the people who are used to D&D and mostly happy with it, but just want some adjustments along one specific vector to be really content. Also... look, the pool of other genres is a little thin right now.

Pulp Sword & Sorcery is well out of date. Classic space opera Science Fiction is old and grey. Superheroes are something TTRPG have always struggled with, and the MCU only hit it big by hybridizing with every other genre possible in a way that no one else has replicated yet.

Cyberpunk is making a bit of a comeback, and we've got a few TTRPG for that. Urban Fantasy is still a thing, and maybe there's room for another game in the area that the World of Darkness isn't covering already. Other flavors of fantasy exist, and there's already a bunch of D&D-adjacent entries to hit a lot of them.

I don't see an obvious and fertile genre that's going unserved right now.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I don't see an obvious and fertile genre that's going unserved right now.

That's kind of the key; to find some sort of killer-app of a game, you have to find something that not only attracts players, including brand new ones, it attracts them in massive numbers. Its not clear what, if anything, that would be.

I mean, its just not 1974.

 

[TheSword]

there are tons of modern games that equal or outpace 5E's support. 5E is anemic by previous edition standards.

But it’s the type of support that matters. Putting out splat books satisfies existing players it doesn’t recruit new players.

5e’s success at recruitment is supercharged by its great starter sets, solid pre-written adventures, ubiquitous streaming that gives live examples of real play, and active community discussion to support new players and DMs.

The number of new rules is irrelevant to player recruitment.

 

[TheSword]

Maybe someone who has cash, clout, or charisma should attempt to make something other than a D&D-killer.

There are other genre. Heck there are other major subgenre of fantasy.

I think some of the successful systems I see - things like L5R, WFRP, CoC, Lord of the Rings work because they are very strong and very well established IPs that could conceivably bring recruits directly in from the source material not just via D&D.

That said, I still think they need good introductory products and marketing as well to make them accessible to any more than just the super fans.

 

[Reynard]

But it’s the type of support that matters. Putting out splat books satisfies existing players it doesn’t recruit new players.

5e’s success at recruitment is supercharged by its great starter sets, solid pre-written adventures, ubiquitous streaming that gives live examples of real play, and active community discussion to support new players and DMs.

The number of new rules is irrelevant to player recruitment.

You can't have it both ways. Either support matters, or it doesn't.

 

[TheSword]

You can't have it both ways. Either support matters, or it doesn't.

They’re different demographics of players. Of course different types of product will appeal to different groups.

Or do you disagree that starter sets are more likely to appeal to new players, and expansion books appeal to players that are already hooked.

I honestly don’t understanding why you’re seeing this as controversial.

 

[Kurotowa]

That's kind of the key; to find some sort of killer-app of a game, you have to find something that not only attracts players, including brand new ones, it attracts them in massive numbers. Its not clear what, if anything, that would be.

And it can't just be any old genre. It has to support serial storytelling with an ensemble party of protagonists, it has to have character attributes that can be gamified into stats and a method of character advancement and power progression, and unless you're branching off into an entirely narrative focused game it has to present challenges that can primarily be overcome through combat.

All that is why things like superheroes and spies and westerns have all struggled in TTRPG form. They're weak in one or another of those pillars, and you need all the legs there for the chair to stand.

 

[Reynard]

They’re different demographics of players. Of course different types of product will appeal to different groups.

Or do you disagree that starter sets are more likely to appeal to new players, and expansion books appeal to players that are already hooked.

I honestly don’t understanding why you’re seeing this as controversial.

Because you are moving the goal posts. I didn't argue about starter sets. I said actual plays and 3rd party support were things that came about because D&D was popular, not what caused it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

And it can't just be any old genre. It has to support serial storytelling with an ensemble party of protagonists, it has to have character attributes that can be gamified into stats and a method of character advancement and power progression, and unless you're branching off into an entirely narrative focused game it has to present challenges that can primarily be overcome through combat.

All that is why things like superheroes and spies and westerns have all struggled in TTRPG form. They're weak in one or another of those pillars, and you need all the legs there for the chair to stand.

I also think there's the issue that some people who would be interested enough in one of them to get into gaming to do it (say, superheroes) are already in gaming in the fantasy end and it doesn't necessarily attract them enough to branch out.