D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Remathilis]

I get that the astral elf ability is more powerful, but I am not sure that means it is better design. I still think it is a bit awkward, that they have a magical ability that does exactly what misty step does, but for some reason isn't misty step. To me it is more coherent if such ability is represented by the spell, though of course how many times it can be used could be scaled up if we wanted it to be more powerful.

But a certain point, every ability being a spells gets bad. You could make dragonborn breath weapons a spell (like burning hands) but it doesn't make things better. All it does it make everyone a spellcaster.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I get that the astral elf ability is more powerful, but I am not sure that means it is better design. I still think it is a bit awkward, that they have a magical ability that does exactly what misty step does, but for some reason isn't misty step. To me it is more coherent if such ability is represented by the spell, though of course how many times it can be used could be scaled up if we wanted it to be more powerful.

You could just as easily say ‘Fey Step: you can use the misty step spell PB/LR, it does not require components nor it it considered as casting a spell when you use it’ boom done

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But a certain point, every ability being a spells gets bad. You could make dragonborn breath weapons a spell (like burning hands) but it doesn't make things better. All it does it make everyone a spellcaster.

Yes, sure. But this is a magical ability on magical species doing exactly what a spell does. So it should be a spell.

 

[bedir than]

that is a how they are formed, it changes nothing inherently, a simily the earth formed from either the collision of gas, dust and rocks or by the hands of some god yet nither changes that the world is the world.
how does not change who they are.

Yes, only being alive because your "parent" shattered into a dozen fragments some that have souls and some that do not is definitely a change in who a people are. That's also true for being a manifestation of a limited part of a much greater mind.

When the world sees a dragonborn they know that a dragon, a massive entity fueled by hoarding something, is gone, absent. The world is quite different. It's a little bit safer, until the dragonborn perform a ritual to be dragons again.

 

[Yaarel]

But a certain point, every ability being a spells gets bad. You could make dragonborn breath weapons a spell (like burning hands) but it doesn't make things better. All it does it make everyone a spellcaster.

For the Elf, being inherently magical and innately casting spells, is the flavor of the species.

Making everything a spell is less good for other species, but for the Elf it is exactly right.

 

[Hussar]

So let me give you an example.

An astral elf can teleport 30 ft as a bonus action. They can do this prof-mod per day. But this is not a spell, so they can teleport and then cast a leveled spell. Their teleport cannot be countered and has no VSM components either.

Contrast to a high-elf using their misty step species spell. They can do that once for free, after that is a 2nd level spell slot to do it again. On the turn they use it, they can't cast any other spell but a cantrip, and the misty step can be countered with counterspell or stopped in the high-elf is silenced or restrained.

So at 5th level, the astral elf can teleport 3/day for free with no restrictions, while the high elf can do it once as a spell before burning their spell slots to do it again. In fact, the astral elf beats the 24 high-elf at most everything: the both get a bonus cantrip, (the AE is limited to one of three choices, the HE is the wizard list and mutable), the AE teleport is better than HE's Misty step in every possible way, and the AE gets a floating bonus tool/weapon AND Skill proficiency per day. The HE? Detect Magic. 1/day.

Swing and a miss.

Now, maybe WotC will revise AE to become lineage that grants sacred flame, guiding bolt, and misty step 1/day plus they can swap a skill prof out once per day to make them as lame as the HE in the PHB, but I'd much rather they made the HE as cool as the AE is.

Whereas I would say the Astral Elf is overpowered drek and I will never allow them again in any campaign I run. The whole "Oh, I get to cast spells but, then I'm going to bypass the limitations inherent in casting spells because I'm not really casting a spell" thing needs to die in a fire. Casters are already overpowered. Granting multiple "get out of jail free" cards to a race is not what I want.

 

[Mind of tempest]

That's fair. One issue with the species currently, as the ASIs effectively no longer are part of the species, is that there is very little left what defines the species mechanically. When they removed the ASIs, they should have increased the budget for other features. Though part of the problem is that they need to be balanced with humans, and it is hard to come up with features for humans as their whole point is that they're the baseline.

second feat at first level the minmaxers will keep them high if nothing else

 

[Remathilis]

Whereas I would say the Astral Elf is overpowered drek and I will never allow them again in any campaign I run. The whole "Oh, I get to cast spells but, then I'm going to bypass the limitations inherent in casting spells because I'm not really casting a spell" thing needs to die in a fire. Casters are already overpowered. Granting multiple "get out of jail free" cards to a race is not what I want.

I guess you are banning eladrin and shadar-kai too?

Maybe we can make aarakroca cast fly 1/day (plus use spell slots) or tritons cast water breathing 1/day.

People complain that species right now don't have any unique identity mechanically and then attempt to make every species trait a free spell...

 

[Scribe]

Lord, please let us not go down the "Elves just cast spells, yes even the baby drawing its first underwater breath because its a Sea Elf."

They are biologically distinct, its magic, thats the way it works, this is a game.

 

[Remathilis]

Lord, please let us not go down the "Elves just cast spells, yes even the baby drawing its first underwater breath because its a Sea Elf."

They are biologically distinct, its magic, thats the way it works, this is a game.

All Will Be Spells.