D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Mind of tempest]

Yes it can. "Pact" is merely the incident which infused you with power. It doesn't need to be literal pact. Hell, it says in the warlock fluff that the patron could even be unaware of the warlock's existence.

then why call it a pact, what is the point of a warlock with out a patron?
it is clearly thumatugy and thus is a divine caster.

they seem to have enough infinite resources for more wizard spells each book, and you only need to dedicate enough resources to fix the sorcerer mechanics once and it's done.

do the wizards even need anything beyond more spells per book?

Yup. 5e made Druid but refused to port over 4e's Primal Power Source. And replaced it with nothing. So we get:

"What's the difference between and Nature Cleric and a Druid?"

And Bards. "Words of Creation" is one of the biggest lore butt-pulls in D&D. My bard doesn't sing, he plays violin.

honestly, primal spirits could be fun divine power by what amounts to endless small patrons so like Twitch but only the insane as opposed to the deeply insane

words of creation sound far too similar to the elder scrolls thum which can be harnessed as vibrations to make no entropic metal(dwemer metal).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'd go back to the playtest sorcerer. Sorcerer's get sorcerer powers.

Class Features​

As a sorcerer, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points​

Hit Dice: 1d6 per sorcerer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per sorcerer level after 1st

Proficiencies​

Armor: None
Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion

Equipment​

You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

• (a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) any simple weapon
• (a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
• (a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
• Two daggers

Level	Proficiency Bonus	Sorcery points	Features	Cantrips Known	Sorceries known	Spells Known	Spell Slots
1st	+2	-	Spellcasting	4	-	2	2
2nd	+2	2	Font of Magic, Sorcery	4	2	3	3
3rd	+2	3	Sorcerous Origin	5	2	4	4/2
4th	+2	4	Ability Score Improvement, Sorcerous Versatility	5	2	5	4/3
5th	+2	5	Magical Guidance	5	3	6	4/3/2

Sorcery
At 2nd level, the innate magic of your magical origin grants a sorcery at certain levels. You gain two of the following Sorceries of your choice. You gain another one at 5th, 10th and 17th level.
Sorcery A sorcery is a magical effect that functions as a spell in all respects, except that using a sorcery does not require you to speak or have a hand free, and the power is not subject to spell disruption.
Saving Throw DCs: When a sorcery that you use calls for a saving throw, the save DC equals 10 + your Charisma modifier. As you gain levels, the DC increases as your spell saving throw DC does, as noted in the Sorcerer table.

Sorceries come is 3 types

1. Gift: An ability to invoke your inner magic into a magical effect onto the words. A gift is subject to the same rules as a spell as is equivalent to a spell of a level listed in it's description.
2. Metamagic. An ability to twist your spells to suit your needs.You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
3. Forms: An ability to alter yourself after a certian amount of your power is unleashed. A Form automatically activates when you have less than half your maximum sorcery points (rounded down)

Gifts

• Arcane Acrobatics
• Bend Luck
• Celestial Calm
• Draconic Scales
• Draconic Strength
• Draconic Presence
• Eyes of the Dark
• Favored By the Gods
• Fiendish Fires
• Force Push
• Hound of Ill Omen
• Storm Guide
• Tides of Chaos
• UNLIMITED POOOOWUUUUH!

Forms

• Angel Halo
• Archon Pelt
• Demon Eyes
• Devil Horns
• Dragon Claws
• Dragon Wings
• Shadow Skin
• Storm's Fury
• Wind Soul

Those sorceries seem awfully similar to invocations. As I have been telling, you we already have a chassis for this.

 

[Minigiant]

Those sorceries seem awfully similar to invocations. As I have been telling, you we already have a chassis for this.

How do they look like invocations if I wrote none of them out?

They'd have a totally different scaling and complexity. That's why you only get 5 of them over 20 levels.

Dragon Scales
Type: Gift
Prerequisite: 1st level
Sorcery Point Cost: Varies
Requirement: You can use this power only as a reaction in response to taking damage.

You cause your skin to thicken into protective scales, the hue of which is reminiscent of a dragon (and specifically the dragon at the source of your heritage, if you have a draconic heritage). Before you take the damage, it is reduced by a number equal to your Charisma score X the number of sorcery point you spent. You also gain resistance to slashing damage. The resistance lasts until the end of your next turn.
Special: If you have the Draconic Bloodline subclass, you also gain resistance to the damage type determined by your type of dragon. The resistance lasts until the end of your next turn.

Angel Halo
Type: Form
Prerequisite: 5th level

A glowing halo of light form above the top of your head. The halo provides bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

While you have a halo, having 0 hit points doesn’t knock you unconscious. You still must make death saving throws, and you suffer the normal effects of taking damage while at 0 hit points. However, if you would die due to failing death saving throws, you don’t die unless you have no sorcery points and lose 1 sorcery point instead.

Special: If you have the Divine Soul subclass, your halo also blinks if you hear a lie.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't get the rationale for why people try to cram warlock and sorcerer together tbh. The sorcerer is a thematic full caster. The warlock is a cantrip welding rogue who occasionally pretends to be a spellcaster. The two classes play nothing alike but because they both have supernatural powers and Rizz, they get lumped together.

I actually like thematic redundancy that occurs when you have subclasses that dip into other classes toys. A divine soul is a sorcerer/cleric without the mess of multiclassing. A blade singer and eldritch knight are opposite ends of the gish spectrum. It makes it so there is no one means of filling a role. Want to be a servant of the Divine? Would you like cleric, druid, paladin, DS Sorc, celestial warlock, or zealot bbn?

Why people want every divine class to be a cleric and forced into that box just bewilders me.

 

[ezo]

I was never one to want to put warlock and sorcerer together, but rolling warlock into cleric (or vica versa) and sorcerer into wizard (or vice versa) makes more sense to me.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If people really wanted all these classes combined or made into subclass of one another... someone would have already built them like that and made them available on DMs Guild to purchase. The fact that no one has put in the effort to do that tells me that the way the classes are categorized and built really isn't actually such a big deal to people despite what people post about here.

If WotC would build a person's perfect class system into the game, they'd be excited and happy and use it... but the idea isn't so important that they're going to do the work themselves to search for or design it.

 

[Minigiant]

I was never one to want to put warlock and sorcerer together, but rolling warlock into cleric (or vica versa) and sorcerer into wizard (or vice versa) makes more sense to me.

it makes terrible sense mechanics wise, balance wise, and playstyle wise.

Many game designers have tried. And failed. It's a "cool idea" that never ends up with a product either you or paying customers ever want.

It never works.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

it makes terrible sense mechanics wise, balance wise, and playstyle wise.

Many game designers have tried. And failed. It's a "cool idea" that never ends up with a product either you or paying customers ever want.

It never works.

Class reductionism is the siren song of 21st century D&D. It's the sweet temptation of "less is more," but it almost always actually cashes out as "less is less."

 

[Minigiant]

Class reductionism is the siren song of 21st century D&D. It's the sweet temptation of "less is more," but it almost always actually cashes out as "less is less."

And I get it

Simple is easier
D&D is more complicated that it needs to be
Things that are separate due to setting lore shouldn't be separate if the table can choose a different setting or homebrew

But the most stuff you want, the hard it is to combine. All you end up doing is cutting stuff you don't like and but others do and have a product you can't sell to the masses.

We see how broken Warlock is by itself. You can't combine that mess with anything else even if you "fix" Warlock.
Combine Sorcerer and Wizard? Either you are secretly cutting one or going to be the laughingstock of the industry by being worse at balancing that WOTC.

 

[Chaosmancer]

it makes terrible sense mechanics wise, balance wise, and playstyle wise.

I was just sitting here thinking, I would love to have a character who started as a Celestial Warlock, and eventually started taking levels of Cleric. That has a great thematic through line and a great character arc...

But it would be an absolute disaster mechanically, and do essentially nothing but weaken the character. Which is a shame. There are fun stories out there, that because of the mechanics, we can't have. But I also don't think combining them helps at all, since you would just be removing those stories from the other end.