D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[CreamCloud0]

Some things just are not worth fixing. The designers do not have infinite resources, so sometimes it makes more sense to just use them for improving other things.

they seem to have enough infinite resources for more wizard spells each book, and you only need to dedicate enough resources to fix the sorcerer mechanics once and it's done.

 

[Minigiant]

Bards. Heck, Druids as well then. Both of them suffer from the "coherent metaphysics" problem far more than the sorcerer does.

I don't want to get rid of either of them. I want to fix the metaphysics to solve the ACTUAL problem.

Yup. 5e made Druid but refused to port over 4e's Primal Power Source. And replaced it with nothing. So we get:

"What's the difference between and Nature Cleric and a Druid?"

And Bards. "Words of Creation" is one of the biggest lore butt-pulls in D&D. My bard doesn't sing, he plays violin.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yes, which is weird.

Also, Paladins a bladelocks with plate armor.

 

[Minigiant]

they seem to have enough infinite resources for more wizard spells each book, and you only need to dedicate enough resources to fix the sorcerer mechanics once and it's done.

It's a desire problem not a resource problem.

You can tell which classes the designers really liked in the 2024 PHB.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I mean if wizard didn’t exist then it’s arguable that sorcerer as is would likely be regarded as the strongest class.

Sure, maybe, but 1) wizard does exist and 2) Taking out the wizard just moves the wizard's niche of "knows all the spells" to the sorcerer.

Personally, if I was going to makes mechanics for the sorcerer to be a unique type of caster, I'd look at Kibblestasty Psion. That class design gives the character a few cantrip like powers, then allows them to spend points to alter it. So a single beam of fire with an attack roll can be turned into an AOE explosion with save for half. The Mystic from the Unearthed arcana had a similar design, where you can buy and mix effects. It doesn't make a simple caster, but it does give the feel of a caster who isn't really doing "spells" the same way as other people (though both did have the option to spend points on casting existing spells) but is instead manipulating raw energy into a form.

To be clear, I don't want Sorcerer = Psion, like others were suggesting. I'm just looking at the mechanics used for things like power points and simple effects which can be made complex.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yes it can. "Pact" is merely the incident which infused you with power. It doesn't need to be literal pact. Hell, it says in the warlock fluff that the patron could even be unaware of the warlock's existence.

Which is generally for GOO Warlocks, who have a very specific flavor. And they still are likely flavored as tapping into rituals and processes that were set up before. Kind of like a hacker using old passwords to get into a mainframe. They aren't given permission to be there, and no one knows they are there, but they are using a pre-existing agreement and just slotting themselves into it.

And even then, the natural question of those stories is "what happens when the patron becomes aware?" All warlock stories, ultimately, lead back to a more powerful personality than can be an ally or antagonist of the Warlock. There is always SOMEONE at the end of the line. Sorcerer stories DO NOT have that as a default. A sorcerer's story is a struggle within themself, not a story of a more powerful being. A sorcerer's ultimate antagonistic force isn't a personality, but a conceptual power. The concept of "Draconic Power" the concept of "FIRE" the concept of "Order", not a singular entity.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Sure, maybe, but 1) wizard does exist and 2) Taking out the wizard just moves the wizard's niche of "knows all the spells" to the sorcerer.

Why not just delete that niche alongside the wizard?

It's not really doing anything positive to the game to make 'the thing the game is increasingly about' the domain of one of a cast of classes.

 

[ezo]

its all the same thing just interpreted in different ways

I always thought that was the way it was... magic is magic is magic.

I access it by learning ancient formulas, gestures, and such to focus magic to effect.
I pray to my diety and call on their favor to empower magic to effect.
I bind with the forces of nature and the elements to summon magic to effect.
I bargained with my patron to gain the knowledge to funnel magic to effect.
I have magic flowing through my body and have masters how to channel it to effect.
I discovered secrets within sound, music, speech, and expression to create magic to effect.
I pledge my mind, body, and soul to a cause allowing me to call magic to effect.
I am kindred to the wild, beasts, and the lands linking me with magic to effect.

Or something like that.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why not just delete that niche alongside the wizard?

It's not really doing anything positive to the game to make 'the thing the game is increasingly about' the domain of one of a cast of classes.

I am all for deleting that Niche, but I don't mind the existence of the Wizard. I think they are filling a good niche in terms of themes and stories for magical researchers and ritual experts. I would like them to NOT have all the spells from every list [hyperbole] but that doesn't mean I want to delete them at this point either

 

[Minigiant]

Sure, maybe, but 1) wizard does exist and 2) Taking out the wizard just moves the wizard's niche of "knows all the spells" to the sorcerer.

Personally, if I was going to makes mechanics for the sorcerer to be a unique type of caster, I'd look at Kibblestasty Psion. That class design gives the character a few cantrip like powers, then allows them to spend points to alter it. So a single beam of fire with an attack roll can be turned into an AOE explosion with save for half. The Mystic from the Unearthed arcana had a similar design, where you can buy and mix effects. It doesn't make a simple caster, but it does give the feel of a caster who isn't really doing "spells" the same way as other people (though both did have the option to spend points on casting existing spells) but is instead manipulating raw energy into a form.

To be clear, I don't want Sorcerer = Psion, like others were suggesting. I'm just looking at the mechanics used for things like power points and simple effects which can be made complex.

I'd go back to the playtest sorcerer. Sorcerer's get sorcerer powers.

Class Features​

As a sorcerer, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points​

Hit Dice: 1d6 per sorcerer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per sorcerer level after 1st

Proficiencies​

Armor: None
Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion

Equipment​

You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

• (a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) any simple weapon
• (a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
• (a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
• Two daggers

Level	Proficiency Bonus	Sorcery points	Features	Cantrips Known	Sorceries known	Spells Known	Spell Slots
1st	+2	-	Spellcasting	4	-	2	2
2nd	+2	2	Font of Magic, Sorcery	4	2	3	3
3rd	+2	3	Sorcerous Origin	5	2	4	4/2
4th	+2	4	Ability Score Improvement, Sorcerous Versatility	5	2	5	4/3
5th	+2	5	Magical Guidance	5	3	6	4/3/2

Sorcery
At 2nd level, the innate magic of your magical origin grants a sorcery at certain levels. You gain two of the following Sorceries of your choice. You gain another one at 5th, 10th and 17th level.
Sorcery A sorcery is a magical effect that functions as a spell in all respects, except that using a sorcery does not require you to speak or have a hand free, and the power is not subject to spell disruption.
Saving Throw DCs: When a sorcery that you use calls for a saving throw, the save DC equals 10 + your Charisma modifier. As you gain levels, the DC increases as your spell saving throw DC does, as noted in the Sorcerer table.

Sorceries come is 3 types

1. Gift: An ability to invoke your inner magic into a magical effect onto the words. A gift is subject to the same rules as a spell as is equivalent to a spell of a level listed in it's description.
2. Metamagic. An ability to twist your spells to suit your needs.You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
3. Forms: An ability to alter yourself after a certian amount of your power is unleashed. A Form automatically activates when you have less than half your maximum sorcery points (rounded down)

Gifts

• Arcane Acrobatics
• Bend Luck
• Celestial Calm
• Draconic Scales
• Draconic Strength
• Draconic Presence
• Eyes of the Dark
• Favored By the Gods
• Fiendish Fires
• Force Push
• Hound of Ill Omen
• Storm Guide
• Tides of Chaos
• UNLIMITED POOOOWUUUUH!

Forms

• Angel Halo
• Archon Pelt
• Demon Eyes
• Devil Horns
• Dragon Claws
• Dragon Wings
• Shadow Skin
• Storm's Fury
• Wind Soul