D&D 5E Should Explicit Monster Roles Return?

Should Explicit Monster Roles Return?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 58.6%
  • No

    Votes: 41 41.4%

I saw 4e's monster roles as a good, if flawed, shorthand. If some version of roles makes a comeback, I'd like to see the box opened up a little bit to account for exceptional/unusual monsters.

What is a Mimic or Piercer? Oh, it's a lurker! I know how to run an ambush! But there's this whole category of "False Appearance" monsters that actually needs either more GM guidance or experience to run well. Besides a PC using detect thoughts, how do you foreshadow the presence of something that sidesteps the whole Perception v. Stealth mechanic? It requires very differently handling from, say, a Goblin Blackblade that's also a lurker.

What is a Unicorn? Oh, it's a skirmisher! Because...uh...it blips around like a blink dog! What happened in 4e was they changed the unicorn's teleportation ability from something more narrative/short-term/long-distance (e.g. "Holding the unicorn's mane, you see the trees swirl and suddenly you're standing in the center of the old elvish ruins") to something more akin to misty step (i.e. combat-focused). And do we really care how to describe a unicorn's combat role? Or are we more likely to be using the unicorn in a social scene? Maybe it's role should be "quest-giver/quest-object" instead?

Edit: A point I've made before is that a Sphinx entry in a MM maybe doesn't need a chonky stat block, and would benefit more from a list of riddles or other trials?

As long as the role don't become a major proscriptive force on design or narrative, I think they're good.

But I also think D&D has enough of a combat-centric stat block issue, that designers could very easily repeat the mistakes (imo) of 4th edition and lean full tilt into an exclusive combat focus. So, if that tendency can be avoided, yes, I think the roles are a good tool.
 

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Having options like these in the MM to help customize creatures seems like it would be great (say at the bottom of the Kobold page there were three options). Ending up with them all on their own page as separate things feels like it would be really annoying.
wouldn't it use up far more redundant space to specify it for each and every monster entry than dedicating 2-4 pages to really go into detail on how to customise different monsters for different roles in a more general sense.
 

wouldn't it use up far more redundant space to specify it for each and every monster entry than dedicating 2-4 pages to really go into detail on how to customise different monsters for different roles in a more general sense.
I was thinking a kobold skirmisher vs kobold defender vs... would do different things than the goblin ones vs... And that it would scare me page flipping.
 


I saw 4e's monster roles as a good, if flawed, shorthand. If some version of roles makes a comeback, I'd like to see the box opened up a little bit to account for exceptional/unusual monsters.

What is a Mimic or Piercer? Oh, it's a lurker! I know how to run an ambush! But there's this whole category of "False Appearance" monsters that actually needs either more GM guidance or experience to run well. Besides a PC using detect thoughts, how do you foreshadow the presence of something that sidesteps the whole Perception v. Stealth mechanic? It requires very differently handling from, say, a Goblin Blackblade that's also a lurker.

What is a Unicorn? Oh, it's a skirmisher! Because...uh...it blips around like a blink dog! What happened in 4e was they changed the unicorn's teleportation ability from something more narrative/short-term/long-distance (e.g. "Holding the unicorn's mane, you see the trees swirl and suddenly you're standing in the center of the old elvish ruins") to something more akin to misty step (i.e. combat-focused). And do we really care how to describe a unicorn's combat role? Or are we more likely to be using the unicorn in a social scene? Maybe it's role should be "quest-giver/quest-object" instead?

Edit: A point I've made before is that a Sphinx entry in a MM maybe doesn't need a chonky stat block, and would benefit more from a list of riddles or other trials?

As long as the role don't become a major proscriptive force on design or narrative, I think they're good.

But I also think D&D has enough of a combat-centric stat block issue, that designers could very easily repeat the mistakes (imo) of 4th edition and lean full tilt into an exclusive combat focus. So, if that tendency can be avoided, yes, I think the roles are a good tool.

I think stat blocks are for combat encounters, and everything else is fiction that doesn’t need stats? This was the other side of why 4e could do what it did - if you were convincing a unicorn to teleport you to a fairy glade, that was a SC outcome or step and it was handled entirely via narrative. The stat blocks inform when you enter combat space, and maybe stealth / perception.

I’d prefer going to that too, but understand it’s outside of this thread.
 

I think stat blocks are for combat encounters, and everything else is fiction that doesn’t need stats? This was the other side of why 4e could do what it did - if you were convincing a unicorn to teleport you to a fairy glade, that was a SC outcome or step and it was handled entirely via narrative. The stat blocks inform when you enter combat space, and maybe stealth / perception.

I’d prefer going to that too, but understand it’s outside of this thread.
Exactly. Nothing about having combat roles makes your game at your table about combat nor pigeonholes monsters. It only tells you how to use the monster most effectively in combat. That's it.
 

Exactly. Nothing about having combat roles makes your game at your table about combat nor pigeonholes monsters. It only tells you how to use the monster most effectively in combat. That's it.
I mean they tried only printing stat blocks for stuff you were expected to fight, but people desperately needed to know how much blunt force trauma they could apply to a copper dragon's face to get him to shut up.

Which, fair.
 

I was thinking a kobold skirmisher vs kobold defender vs... would do different things than the goblin ones vs... And that it would scare me page flipping.
a kobold skirmisher would maybe do different things to a goblin one, but i think those different things would function in some fundamentally similar ways, so give people the tools to get to the solutions themselves in any situation rather than just use an answer they don't understand the method behind, or is flipping a few pages REALLY that much of a chore for you?
 

a kobold skirmisher would maybe do different things to a goblin one, but i think those different things would function in some fundamentally similar ways, so give people the tools to get to the solutions themselves in any situation rather than just use an answer they don't understand the method behind, or is flipping a few pages REALLY that much of a chore for you?

The flipping to different pages has actually been annoying lately.

In any case, I have modded plenty of monsters on the fly over the past 40 years, but I'm not sure why making it easier for new DMs would be a bad thing.

But sure, give them suggestions on more modification ideas as they advance in DMing skill. (And now I'm picturing the huge variety of goblins in MtG, maybe some general instructions for making a balloon brigade variant... )
 


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