D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Pauln6]

Honestly, a Wisdom save should suffice for that sort of thing if needed.

I think the main issue with wisdom saves as the baseline is that a monster's wisdom takes no account of their personality or purpose, so a trained soldier would be easier to intimidate than the wise old herbalist. It's very inelegant.

Using the old morale score allows you be more situation specific. A cowardly goblin is more likely to run than a martial hobgoblin. I just think about rolling when a monster hits half hp, when a leader is killed, or when half their allies are killed. It would be nice to have a table rather than having to refer to previous editions.

 

[Yaarel]

I think the main issue with wisdom saves as the baseline is that a monster's wisdom takes no account of their personality or purpose, so a trained soldier would be easier to intimidate than the wise old herbalist. It's very inelegant.

Using the old morale score allows you be more situation specific. A cowardly goblin is more likely to run than a martial hobgoblin. I just think about rolling when a monster hits half hp, when a leader is killed, or when half their allies are killed. It would be nice to have a table rather than having to refer to previous editions.

I think Wis save is ok to represent "morale checks", each time a comrad gets Bloodied.

However, I strongly want to divorce Will and Perception from each other. Ideally, Perception is a separate ability alongside Strength and Intelligence.

All knowledge checks, including Medicine, Survival, and any knowledge gained "intuitively", need to be Intelligence.


Then some soldiers happen to have high Wisdom, thus maintain morale and stay sane. But others might not.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I think the main issue with wisdom saves as the baseline is that a monster's wisdom takes no account of their personality or purpose, so a trained soldier would be easier to intimidate than the wise old herbalist. It's very inelegant.

Using the old morale score allows you be more situation specific. A cowardly goblin is more likely to run than a martial hobgoblin. I just think about rolling when a monster hits half hp, when a leader is killed, or when half their allies are killed. It would be nice to have a table rather than having to refer to previous editions.

I think something like this is already in the DMG.
Edit yeah Morale

A creature might flee under any of the following circumstances:

• The creature is surprised.
• The creature is reduced to half its hit points or fewer for the first time in the battle.
• The creature has no way to harm the opposing side on its turn.

A group of creatures might flee under any of the following circumstances:

• All the creatures in the group are surprised.
• The group’s leader is reduced to 0 hit points, incapacitated, taken prisoner, or removed from battle.
• The group is reduced to half its original size with no losses on the opposing side.

The leader makes a wisdom save for a group, or the next highest charisma if the leader is out of the picture. It can auto fail if the DM feels the creature or group would flee at that point.

 

[SkidAce]

I think Wis save is ok to represent "morale checks", each time a comrad gets Bloodied.

However, I strongly want to divorce Will and Perception from each other. Ideally, Perception is a separate ability alongside Strength and Intelligence.

All knowledge checks, including Medicine, Survival, and any knowledge gained "intuitively", need to be Intelligence.


Then some soldiers happen to have high Wisdom, thus maintain morale and stay sane. But others might not.

You are (looks at watch) 36 years behind the curve* my friend.

...just teasing yah...

 

[Nikosandros]

You are (looks at watch) 36 years behind the curve* my friend.

View attachment 365728

...just teasing yah...

I remember well this article! I actually adopted it for a period of time...

 

[Pauln6]

I think something like this is already in the DMG.
Edit yeah Morale

The leader makes a wisdom save for a group, or the next highest charisma if the leader is out of the picture. It can auto fail if the DM feels the creature or group would flee at that point.

Yeah this is definitely Morale Lite rules, which is great for DMing on the fly. The more advanced version would just give a baseline DC based on broad personality traits. It would also help with setting intimidation DCS. 1e even put them into broad categories from cowardly to fearless that could give guidance.

 

[Hussar]

The thing with the DMG morale rules is that it’s generally 50:50 for failing or not. Most monsters don’t have much in the way of Wisdom scores and almost never have additional Wis save bonuses so the D20 basically steamrolls the bonus.

I do like using it though. I generally use it any time a baddy gets down to one round from death. It massively speeds up combat.

 

[Maxperson]

Might I suggest that this legal sidebar, as interesting as it may be, is very far afield from the topic at hand?

But I need to know if I will have to get Greyhawk notarized or not!

 

[Maxperson]

Chris Perkins did a breakdown of the contents of the new DMG a while back:
Chapter 1 -- basic concepts
Chapter 2 -- Advice, common issues
Chapter 3 -- Rules cyclopedia
Chapter 4 -- Adventure building: including a template on how to build a single Adventure with at least one example
Chapter 5 -- Campaign building: including a template on how to build a Campaign from a string of Adventures, and a sample Campaign
Chapter 6 -- Cosmology
Chapter 7 -- Magic items
Chapter 8 -- How to build a Setting, woth Greyhawk as the example
Appendices -- maps, lore glossary, including a fold-out poster map

Still not the best order, but it is much better. This is how I think it ought to be.

Chris Perkins did a breakdown of the contents of the new DMG a while back:
Chapter 1 -- basic concepts
Chapter 2 -- Advice, common issues
Chapter 3 -- Rules cyclopedia
Chapter 4 -- Adventure building: including a template on how to build a single Adventure with at least one example
Chapter 5 -- Campaign building: including a template on how to build a Campaign from a string of Adventures, and a sample Campaign
Chapter 6 -- How to build a Setting, with Greyhawk as the example
Chapter 7 -- Cosmology
Chapter 8 -- Magic items
Appendices -- maps, lore glossary, including a fold-out poster map

The setting building and cosmology should be next to each other and the cosmology should be after setting.

 

[Pauln6]

Still not the best order, but it is much better. This is how I think it ought to be.

Chris Perkins did a breakdown of the contents of the new DMG a while back:
Chapter 1 -- basic concepts
Chapter 2 -- Advice, common issues
Chapter 3 -- Rules cyclopedia
Chapter 4 -- Adventure building: including a template on how to build a single Adventure with at least one example
Chapter 5 -- Campaign building: including a template on how to build a Campaign from a string of Adventures, and a sample Campaign
Chapter 6 -- How to build a Setting, with Greyhawk as the example
Chapter 7 -- Cosmology
Chapter 8 -- Magic items
Appendices -- maps, lore glossary, including a fold-out poster map

The setting building and cosmology should be next to each other and the cosmology should be after setting.

It will be interesting if they consider the history of Greyhawk and use it as an example of how you can take a baseline, human-centric, lowish magic (with pockets of high magic) setting, and then find ways to adapt that to 5e rules where almost all modern groups will be magic-using non-humans.