D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[CapnZapp]

Can I laugh at the absurdity of thinking they were going to put something like Dark Sun in the DMG? The idea that the sample setting was going to deviate from the norms in the rest of the Core? Even Eberron would need large amounts of page count to devote to "here is where the elves are different from the PHB" or "this is the stats for Dragon marks"

Yes you can laugh.

Myself, I'd be more inclined to cry when I think about the creative void at the center of WotC and how much better our hobby would be off if it wasnt dominated by a 500 pound gorilla that does absolutely everything to try to please everyone at the same time.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Can I laugh at the absurdity of thinking they were going to put something like Dark Sun in the DMG? The idea that the sample setting was going to deviate from the norms in the rest of the Core? Even Eberron would need large amounts of page count to devote to "here is where the elves are different from the PHB" or "this is the stats for Dragon marks"

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me that the DMG would go out of its way to contradict and work against the PHB for the example setting.

Also, I feel like a lot of people miss this, but the PHB is going to have a section devoted to giving explanations of different settings. Now, clearly, this won't be a setting a book for each setting, but I could absolutely see them putting a few paragraphs about Athas or some of their new partner settings they have been bringing to DnD beyond in this section. And the beautiful thing about that? Then the PLAYERS are going to see something they are interested in, and potentially even help the DMs with the work.

I really feel like that is going to be a big boon of the new PHB, if they do it right.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yes you can laugh.

Myself, I'd be more inclined to cry when I think about the creative void at the center of WotC and how much better our hobby would be off if it wasnt dominated by a 500 pound gorilla that does absolutely everything to try to please everyone at the same time.

Other than "it is different^tm" what reason is there to have the DMG example setting invalidate the baseline established in the PHB?

IT does nothing to veteran players either way, they are veterans. They are aware of the different options. It isn't like if you put Cyberpunk 2077 in the DMG veteran DnD players are going to be shocked at the idea of a non-historical setting for DnD. If that is what you want, it exists already for free online. These examples are mainly there for people who are not veterans of the game, and need something to orient themselves.

And it isn't like they aren't supporting multiple settings at this point, nor that those settings will see zero page count in the core books. They just aren't going to be the example setting.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yes you can laugh.

Myself, I'd be more inclined to cry when I think about the creative void at the center of WotC and how much better our hobby would be off if it wasnt dominated by a 500 pound gorilla that does absolutely everything to try to please everyone at the same time.

The DMG should be for new DMs, showing them how to get started with the basics before they start to branch out. It's not there to serve people who are already beyond that need who crave novelty.

I'm not going to argue with the idea that we'd be better off without D&D being dominant, but this isn't an example of that.

What we actually need is the return of actual campaign settings instead of notes on large adventures.

 

[Von Ether]

Yes you can laugh.

Myself, I'd be more inclined to cry when I think about the creative void at the center of WotC and how much better our hobby would be off if it wasnt dominated by a 500 pound gorilla that does absolutely everything to try to please everyone at the same time.

My personal opinion, that's what D&D is for, especially if it supposed to be an on ramp for the hobby. Through both TSR and WotC, Forgotten Realms and Mystara, are some of the original kitchen sink settings, they have been best sellers due to offering various jumping off points with different flavors.

TSR did make some experiments with great settings, but now we know they were not great sellers, sadly. TSR's last bit of creativity was the Odyssey product line specifically for short term creative projects.

Eberron, my favorite setting, was only created because Hasbro wanted an IP they owned for their video games after they sold off the video game rights for FR.

Vanilla, kitchen sink fantasy settings are D&D's bread and butter.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me that the DMG would go out of its way to contradict and work against the PHB for the example setting.

Also, I feel like a lot of people miss this, but the PHB is going to have a section devoted to giving explanations of different settings. Now, clearly, this won't be a setting a book for each setting, but I could absolutely see them putting a few paragraphs about Athas or some of their new partner settings they have been bringing to DnD beyond in this section. And the beautiful thing about that? Then the PLAYERS are going to see something they are interested in, and potentially even help the DMs with the work.

I really feel like that is going to be a big boon of the new PHB, if they do it right.

I expect you're correct in principle, but at this point I would be quite surprised if they mention Athas at all. I'm sure WotC would be very happy if everyone forgot Dark Sun exists.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My personal opinion, that's what D&D is for, especially if it supposed to be an on ramp for the hobby. Through both TSR and WotC, Forgotten Realms and Mystara, are some of the original kitchen sink settings, they have been best sellers due to offering various jumping off points with different flavors.

TSR did make some experiments with great settings, but now we know they were not great sellers, sadly. TSR's last bit of creativity was the Odyssey product line specifically for short term creative projects.

Eberron, my favorite setting, was only created because Hasbro wanted an IP they owned for their video games after they sold off the video game rights for FR.

Vanilla, kitchen sink fantasy settings are D&D's butter.

None of that sounds great for anything except WotC's pocketbook. Of course, that's clearly the important thing.

 

[Von Ether]

None of that sounds great for anything except WotC's pocketbook. Of course, that's clearly the important thing.

That's one way to look at it.

It also means the more creative worldbuilding is open for 3PP, who don't need to justify their earnings to corporate overloads. It also means there's opportunity for those who get laid off from WotC as they build their own studios.

My opinion, there may be more good in supporting and singing the praises of 3PP publishers who offer the things a customer is enjoying than bemoaning WotC is not giving someone what they specifically want - because 12 gamers will always want 24 different things.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's one way to look at it.

It also means the more creative worldbuilding is open for 3PP, who don't need to justify their earning to corporate overloads. It also means there's opportunity for those who get laid off from WotC as they build their own studios.

My opinion, there may be more good in supporting and singing the praises of 3PP publishers who offer the things a customer is enjoying than bemoaning WotC is not giving someone what they specifically want - because 12 gamers will always want 24 different things.

Yeah, and WoTC is also partnering with some of those 3PP creators. Let us not forget that Grim Hollow (Gothic Dark Fantasy), Drakkenheim (Dark Renaissance Fantasy), Humbelwood (Cozy anthro fantasy), and Tal'Dorei are all on DnD Beyond.

Combine that with WoTC's books which cover Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Ravnica, Theros, Ravenloft, Strixhaven, Spelljammer, Planescape, Dragonlance, and soon to be Greyhawk... we actually have a ridiculous number of recognized settings for DnD 5e.

And this is BEFORE we start getting into the 3PP material which has not been put on DnD Beyond, which is also excellent.

 

[Hussar]

How is Greyhawk Adventures apocryphal? After the Gazetteer and the boxed set, it's the next thing TSR gave us on Greyhawk! (As best I recall, at least.)

Because it’s mostly a hot mess of poorly thought out bits all jammed together with little thought or oversight?

Because the book is so detail poor that it might as well say anything?

Because the book, instead of focusing on Greyhawk proper, tried in a bit more than a hundred pages, to give an overview of parts of Oerth that were completely irrelevant?