D&D General Changing Order of Character Creation, from 1e to 2024

[Maxperson]

I wouldn't say necessary. But if you're doing some sort of rolling system where you roll in order, and you only get an 8 Charisma, you may not want to play that sorcerer concept you have. Or even with the more standard "assign stats" method, if your highest stat is only a 13, maybe skip out on playing that monk.

Or you can just not roll! That's usually what I do for modern D&D.

When I DM we do roll in order, but I also allow the players to swap any pair of stats so that they can play the class they want to play. If someone rolled that 8 charisma and rolled a 15 con, they could swap the pair and be a sickly sorcerer.

 

[TwoSix]

When we first moved to 5e from 3.5e I thought that way. Then I realized how little that +1 actually matters in the bounded system. My last character(since I mostly DM) was an elven bladesinger. I rolled 16 int and 18 dex, so I ended up with 17 int and 20 dex after racials. I didn't change that 17 to an 18 until I was either 8th or 12th level, and that was only accidentally since the feat I wanted happened to come with +1 to int.

I won't pick a race just to turn an odd prime stat into an even one, though if one of the races I want to play also happens to do that I won't complain.

Seems like a perfect candidate for elven accuracy at 4th.

Starting 18 is nice because you can get the early 20 with pretty much any race.

But this is another spot where aesthetics and psychology comes into play. If my main stat is down +1 due to my own choices, I notice every time I miss by 1. That's a lot of rolls over 4 levels of play.

 

[TwoSix]

When I DM we do roll in order, but I also allow the players to swap any pair of stats so that they can play the class they want to play. If someone rolled that 8 charisma and rolled a 15 con, they could swap the pair and be a sickly sorcerer.

And that's fine, it's mostly random with more freedom of choice. But I probably wouldn't take sorcerer if my highest stat was only a 12.

 

[Maxperson]

Seems like a perfect candidate for elven accuracy at 4th.

Starting 18 is nice because you can get the early 20 with pretty much any race.

But this is another spot where aesthetics and psychology comes into play. If my main stat is down +1 due to my own choices, I notice every time I miss by 1. That's a lot of rolls over 4 levels of play.

Sure, but what I'm saying is that the +1 bonus from going to 18 or even +2 bonus(over the 17 stat) from hitting 20 don't make much difference in the bounded system. An extra hit every 2.5-5 fights and a bit of extra damage against the giant bags of hit points that 5e monsters are, just doesn't have much impact. Even the bit of extra DC doesn't matter since the +1 or +2 will only prevent the occasional made save over the 17 stat.

I agree that aesthetics and especially psychology come into play hard here. A lot of people feel like they NEED every +1 possible, even though they don't, so feel compelled to push that 17 to 18 or even 20 as soon as possible. Some of that is reinforced by 3e and I think 4e, which had treadmill bonuses where every +1 did matter because monsters were getting harder as you levelled and you needed the bonuses to keep up.

 

[ezo]

Race/Species -> Background -> Class always made the most sense to me because it’s chronological. Start with how you were born, then how you grew up, then what you are now.

It is the way it should be IMO.

And yet, every time I create a character, I choose my Class first

Because choice of race isn't random and player's can arrange ability scores to choice (making them "not random" either).

IRL, we don't get a choice of who are birth parents were, or what our genetic strengths and weaknesses are. Sure, we can do things to becomes stronger or smarter (working out, studying, etc.), and so on.

My preferred method is:

1. random ability scores IN ORDER
2. random race roll (adjust ability scores given race modifiers)
3. choose background that supports concept
4. "build" ability score changes to support class (take 2 from A, add 1 to B)
5. choose class, proficiencies, spells, etc.
6. buy equipment
7. PLAY!

 

[Aldarc]

Class first makes sense to me, frankly.......

Getting ability score bonuses based on your class makes sense too, but it sounds like that this is not the direction WotC is going.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Getting ability score bonuses based on your class makes sense too, but it sounds like that this is not the direction WotC is going.

i'm loathe to let class have any more influence on your build than it already does, IMO it's already too big a chunk, we should make species and backgrounds matter more to how a character ends up playing.

 

[Remathilis]

It is the way it should be IMO.


Because choice of race isn't random and player's can arrange ability scores to choice (making them "not random" either).

IRL, we don't get a choice of who are birth parents were, or what our genetic strengths and weaknesses are. Sure, we can do things to becomes stronger or smarter (working out, studying, etc.), and so on.

My preferred method is:

1. random ability scores IN ORDER
2. random race roll (adjust ability scores given race modifiers)
3. choose background that supports concept
4. "build" ability score changes to support class (take 2 from A, add 1 to B)
5. choose class, proficiencies, spells, etc.
6. buy equipment
7. PLAY!

Ugh. I would absolutely hate that. Random characters are for gatcha games.

 

[Aldarc]

IRL, we don't get a choice of who are birth parents were, or what our genetic strengths and weaknesses are. Sure, we can do things to becomes stronger or smarter (working out, studying, etc.), and so on.

This is why I just hand players a pre-made character with pre-written backstory as soon as they sit at the table. Realism is all about depriving players of choice.

 

[payn]

Getting ability score bonuses based on your class makes sense too, but it sounds like that this is not the direction WotC is going.

PF2 does but its of little matter since every PC ends up with one of three different arrays.