D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: Feats/Backgrounds/Species

You have presented absolutely no case that any of it is anything but a corner case. Plus you're essentially asking me to prove a negative. Whereas it should be easy to prove something is common.
I pointed out some basic critical thinking and referenced a long history of personal experience, which is what you had expressed when your experience isn't more valid than anyone else's.

Your response seams to be a deflection regarding the critical thinking and experience, a continuation no evidence without even further clarification, and repeated assertion of the unproven term "corner case".

If I understand your argument this is an issue that affects many people because of how common it is, but this common thing that is the norm isn't possible to see? I'm not sure you understand providing a negative so here's another link to help you.


Take a breath, hydrate, and relax. We're only discussing a game. ;-)
 

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I don't know about anyone else, but I am not a fan of the dwarves' tremorsense or the 2024 edition's version of the Goliath.
I kinda dig the tremorsense on Dwarves. I'm on the fence about Goliaths, though—at least they're no longer Vin Diesel the Species™. On the other hand, though, they're no longer Vin Diesel the Species™. 😉
 



I don't know about anyone else, but I am not a fan of the dwarves' tremorsense or the 2024 edition's version of the Goliath.
i like dwarves tremmorsense, it feels very apt for the species, but it being on a limited number of uses just feels plain wrong for something like that, if you don't want it active 24-7 because it'd be OP then make it require an action to activate it and maintian with concentration or something.

goliaths im kinda 'eh' on right now, more due to never really gel-ing with the various flavours of elemental giants that DnD does.
 

Yes I would guess about 20% is right.

However I think the issue is going to be that a vastly higher % of players are either:

A) Forced into sub-optimal designs.

or

B) Forced into picking the literally 1 background that optimizes for their class/spec.

B being more likely.
I might push back a little on that. I think that number will be 20%-30% also. I think there is a middle-majority where things will work out as intended.

I do not disagree that the 20%-30% people forced into picking a background they don't want for optimization's sake will be disgruntled. It is literally the racial ASI bonuses all over again. It's just now they are tied to something non-inflammatory.

I will state again that personally, I don't see a problem with this. I personally believe that often, choosing the non-optimal branch often leads to other unintended optimizations. I once had a wood elf barbarian that people scoffed at until I started moving 120' and attacking in a single round. I had a half-orc wizard with a 14 strength for a short while, and his relentless endurance worked far better for our group (no healers) than anything a high elf would have granted me.

Again, this is just my experience. I know there are some on here where it seems every fight they have is threading the needle between life and death, and they need that extra +1, or whatever optimization they have, just to get through the adventure. I get that too. I'm just saying, for a large portion of the players, in the end, it won't make a difference during actual play. (It will make a notable difference from a perceived point of view.)
 

I don't know about anyone else, but I am not a fan of the dwarves' tremorsense or the 2024 edition's version of the Goliath.
With the Dwarves, the species is too boring to increase aspects of it in nonfantastical means without making them overpowered. Especially once culture is stripped.

Dwarves can't be balanced as stout human with more HO and darkvision against Dragonborn.

Goliath is similar

"Boring grounded" races only work if all the races are "boring grounded" races.

It's basically the Batman in the Justice League problem.

Batman in Gotham: Normal high level martial artist detective.

Batman in Space: Super genius super ninja who is the top 0.001% martial artist and rich person in galaxy.
 

I pointed out some basic critical thinking and referenced a long history of personal experience, which is what you had expressed when your experience isn't more valid than anyone else's.

Your response seams to be a deflection regarding the critical thinking and experience, a continuation no evidence without even further clarification, and repeated assertion of the unproven term "corner case".

If I understand your argument this is an issue that affects many people because of how common it is, but this common thing that is the norm isn't possible to see? I'm not sure you understand providing a negative so here's another link to help you.


Take a breath, hydrate, and relax. We're only discussing a game. ;-)
You can't have it both ways, both "chill out" and "let's play elaborate games using wikipedia entries", @Ashrym, so there's an easy solution.
 

I think there is a middle-majority where things will work out as intended.
I think you're going to be shocked by how small the "work out as intended" group is, because of the combination of the limited stat choice and the forced two skills together with the thematic background.

I think the Feat will probably be less of an issue, oddly enough.

As soon as the full list is out, people will start picking at it, and rightly so. People will see characters they've played for years, or even decades, are flatly illegal under the new rules. Oh your backstory for your Wizard is that you were a Urchin? Well, that background doesn't have INT as an option, so you're going to be permanently dumber than another INT character.

It's just now they are tied to something non-inflammatory.
It's not really non-inflammatory. You've moved from saying to "All elves are more agile but less tough" or the like, to "All street people are tougher but dumber".

This is classic WotC stupidity, and inability to see past the end of their nose. If they'd kept Custom in as a default, they could easily have argued that these were "just examples". But they didn't, so they can't. Instead they've made it so you're inherently less potentially intelligent or less potentially healthy or stronger or whatever based on what, previously, was just a minor choice.

Does that make Background more important? Yes. Will that work out well? I definitely don't think so. Background is a weird thing introduced in 5E, that frankly most PCs (rightly) gloss over in favour of their character's actual, y'know, backstory.

I will state again that personally, I don't see a problem with this. I personally believe that often, choosing the non-optimal branch often leads to other unintended optimizations.
I don't entirely disagree but it's very much beside the point. When that's serendipitous, people are delighted by it. When they're forced into something they don't like, it just annoys them further. Further, both the examples you provide are of (presumably) intentional choices, not being forced into something, which is illustrative of how you're not really seeing what's going on here.

I get that too. I'm just saying, for a large portion of the players, in the end, it won't make a difference during actual play. (It will make a notable difference from a perceived point of view.)
The first bit is questionable and conflicts with your point re "unintended optimizations", but the second, bracketed point is pretty key. It will make a big difference to how people perceive their characters and the 5E 2024 system, and it'll be strongly negative. People are going to feel they have to take themes they really DO NOT want to take, just because that's the only way to get the stats and/or skills their character "needs". I'm sure occasionally that'll have some positive outcome, but a lot more of the time, it'll just piss people off.

And a whole bunch of people will live in blissful ignorance about this, and insist it doesn't happen, because their DM just says yes to every custom background, which probably ends up being most of their backgrounds.
 

So having listened to all the videos from yesterday and looking through the background art, I’ve figured out 15 of the 16 backgrounds:

Acolyte
Artisan
Charlatan
Criminal
Entertainer
Farmer
Guard
Guide
Hermit
Merchant
Noble
Sage
Sailor
Solider
Wayfarer

Whatever background is missing has to be AFTER Sage in alphabetic order. We saw one page of backgrounds and it shows 4 backgrounds, and those backgrounds are Hermit, Merchant, Noble, and Sage.

Sailor, Solider, and Wayfarer are the only three backgrounds after Sage, so there has to be one more here to match the four backgrounds per page.

You can also see what the art is in the Origins video around 8:50. It’s a large room with a black rock that has glowing writing on it and a bunch of desks. So my guess is the missing background is “Teacher” or “Student.”
 

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