D&D General D&D Editions: Anybody Else Feel Like They Don't Fit In?

[Thomas Shey]

One's not connected to the other. It's a fair tradeoff for the differences in power between them. The d4 wizard is a glass cannon. The d12 barbarian is a meat shield. Their HP is suited to their roles in combat. You send out whatever is reasonable for the situation and let the players sort it out. If the fragile wizard wants to face-tank some giants, that's on them. If the beefy barbarian is a coward and hides behind the wizard, that's on them. The HP balance between PCs, monsters, and monster damage sorts itself out real quick and has for about 50 years.

This assumes the wizard always has anything to say about it. Actually getting anything done and avoiding, say, a group of goblin archers letting fly at them is not always something that can be done.

 

[Pauln6]

I think minor at-will magic would have been enough to make low level wizards playable. As it was you had to spend a level 1 spell to gain 3 cantrips which did largely nothing. Being able to halve damage from missile attacks would have saved so many wizards.

It cut both ways though. How many groups commanded their allies to ignore the dozens of minions to focus fire on the wizard until s/he was dead?

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think minor at-will magic would have been enough to make low level wizards playable. As it was you had to spend a level 1 spell to gain 3 cantrips which did largely nothing. Being able to halve damage from missile attacks would have saved so many wizards.

It cut both ways though. How many groups commanded their allies to ignore the dozens of minions to focus fire on the wizard until s/he was dead?

It was even worse in the OD&D days. You had a small number of spells and then were pretty much reduced to throwing weapons. Some of the spells were impactful (Sleep notoriously, but Charm Person under the right circumstances), but you still only had a few of them.

As to the latter--yeah, but the difference is, that NPC wizard is fungible. The GM can produce another 3rd level wizard in whenever and in whatever amounts he needs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think minor at-will magic would have been enough to make low level wizards playable. As it was you had to spend a level 1 spell to gain 3 cantrips which did largely nothing. Being able to halve damage from missile attacks would have saved so many wizards.

It cut both ways though. How many groups commanded their allies to ignore the dozens of minions to focus fire on the wizard until s/he was dead?

That's when you make sure your minions are in front of their minions.

 

[MichaelSomething]

We didn't so much avoid them. We usually started with two level 1 characters each and one of them was usually a wizard. The wizards just didn't last that long. No at will magic and AC 8 - 10, they usually died swinging a dagger somewhere between levels 1 and 5.

2HD for rangers at level 1 was awesome. Probably 2HD for everyone would have helped a lot.

So wizards were balanced because DMs would kill them before they got high level magic?

 

[payn]

So wizards were balanced because DMs would kill them before they got high level magic?

You are on a roll today.

 

[Brotton Goodfellow]

Have you looked into the Conan TTRPG by Modipheus?

 

[Desdichado]

Form of magic matters in feel. Casting spells feels different than having items. I dislike everyone being a spellcaster, not the idea of spellcasting. In Level Up, for example, six of the core classes don't cast spells unless you take a subclass that does, and four of them (fighter, marshal, ranger, and rogue) aren't even baseline magical.

I ended up making my "D&D" game have Lovecraftian rather than Vancian magic, and I ended up--somewhat reluctantly at first, but later I embraced the concept--allowing or maybe deliberately houseruling the concept of a "pseudomage" who uses magic items rather than spells and plays just a bit more like a regular D&d wizard or whatever. If a D&d wizard were likely to be strung out in debt and on the run from fantasy loan sharks or the mob, because that's the only way he can keep his magic going.

I don't have any spellcasting classes. Anyone can find or learn spells or use magic. It's just a question of whether or not they're willing to pay the cost.

That said, my game is deliberately dark fantasy and combines traditional fantasy tropes in equal measure with The X-files and The Godfather. I don't pretend or imagine that it would work for anyone else's game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I ended up making my "D&D" game have Lovecraftian rather than Vancian magic, and I ended up--somewhat reluctantly at first, but later I embraced the concept--allowing or maybe deliberately houseruling the concept of a "pseudomage" who uses magic items rather than spells and plays just a bit more like a regular D&d wizard or whatever. If a D&d wizard were likely to be strung out in debt and on the run from fantasy loan sharks or the mob, because that's the only way he can keep his magic going.

I don't have any spellcasting classes. Anyone can find or learn spells or use magic. It's just a question of whether or not they're willing to pay the cost.

That said, my game is deliberately dark fantasy and combines traditional fantasy tropes in equal measure with The X-files and The Godfather. I don't pretend or imagine that it would work for anyone else's game.

Sounds cool. What system are you using?

 

[Desdichado]

Sounds cool. What system are you using?

It's just a kitbashed mess. It started off as Microlite20 kinda, but it doesn't really resemble that much anymore. The pseudomage was probably most inspired by the character Massha from the old M.Y.T.H. Adventures books.

EDIT: You could probably get pretty close with a few minor houserules to Shadowdark, Knave 2e or Deathbringer. By sheer coincidence, it kinda looks sorta OSR adjacent in terms of mechanics, even though I don't play it like an OSR game. I never go into dungeons, for instance.