D&D General D&D Assumptions Ain't What They Used To Be

[Ruin Explorer]

you don't think anakin's intense desire for the power to have control over things in his life, up to and including the survival of his loved ones, may not be somewhat a consequence of his lack of power in his childhood being unable to save his mother from being a slave?

I'm pretty sure George Lucas thinks that, though I also think @Reynard can be easily forgiven for not realizing that given how poorly Lucas presents the story and particularly how poorly he showcases Anakin's personality in the PT.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I’m the opposite, I like evil characters but ones who work for it. Not the low hanging fruit twirly mustache types. I understand these make good foils for heroes but I don’t want to be a low hanging fruit GM either.

Yeah I think Evil PCs can be fine so long as they're "high functioning Evil" - TV is absolutely full of characters like this. People who can cooperate and be effective in a party, okay to be around most of the time, and even have values and lines they don't cross - but for whom those lines might not include, say, murder, theft, arson, etc.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would say no, not always. A lot of fantasy settings don't have a historical progression modelled on real European history, and there's no particular requirement that they should. So it's not logical to assume that. It's merely a possibility. Plenty of societies developed with more or less use of forced labour/slavery. It's also interesting to me that some the most brutally slave-centric societies get like, ignored in the list of "slave-y" societies. The Vikings being a key one. Thralls were never a huge proportion of the population, but were a significant and noteworthy one, and sometimes they were freed, but that was hard slavery, no question about it. Yet you can definitely make a fantasy society that feels authentically "Viking" without using thralls at all - we know this because most fantasy Viking societies skip the thrall element! Including older ones (ironically this is more because people were either ignorant of the role of thralls, or trying to make Vikings look good, rather than out of any sensitivity or anything).

I daresay you could pretty easily make an authentic-seeming ancient Greek or Babylonian or Egyptian society without really having hard slaves either, just like oppressed workers and disenfranchised members of society, but who weren't actually owned.

Roman-style I think it's more difficult because Rome itself made slaves and enslaving people so central to its own worldview of itself, and that has very much propagated through history. People have tried but it tends to feel a bit more "fake" compared to say Vikings without thralls, even though both are equally ahistorical.

"Soft" slavery absolutely definitely gets a "pass" so yeah isn't an issue to have in a setting imo. Indeed we're actually at a cultural point where there's some excessive playing-down of how unpleasant some "soft" slavery* was (and from all parts of the political spectrum - not just the ends but also the center!). Just avoid the term slavery or any actual chains that aren't strictly carceral.

* = For example, re: indentured people coming to the US - people are like "Oh well they mostly only had 5-20 year indentures!" and that's absolutely true - but an awful lot of them did not live long enough to see the end of their indenture (what was killing them - primarily disease, malnutrition/starvation, etc. is a whole other discussion).

Personally I feel that if a fantasy society draws heavily from a particularly culture or cultures for its inspiration, the parts that are unpleasant to modern sensibilities shouldn't be ignored. But then I tend to look at most fantasy as a sort of "history +", where you're still trying to be coherent from a real world point of view where practical.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm pretty sure George Lucas thinks that, though I also think @Reynard can be easily forgiven for not realizing that given how poorly Lucas presents the story and particularly how poorly he showcases Anakin's personality in the PT.

This is why every depiction of the prequel era is better executed than the prequel films, including novelizations of the prequel films.

 

[Reynard]

you don't think anakin's intense desire for the power to have control over things in his life, up to and including the survival of his loved ones, may not be somewhat a consequence of his lack of power in his childhood as a slave being unable to also save his mother from slavehood?

No, because it isn't written that way. Anakin's childhood as a slave is not built into his character. His last for control and power doesn't emerge from slavery, it emerges from his mother's senseless death.

 

[Reynard]

This is why every depiction of the prequel era is better executed than the prequel films, including novelizations of the prequel films.

There is no Star Wars beyond the screen.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is no Star Wars beyond the screen.

Can't agree with you there. Tons of good stuff beyond the feature films.

 

[Reynard]

Can't agree with you there. Tons of good stuff beyond the feature films.

That was a pithy response. Let me amend: there is no Star Wars text outside the screen, and mostly outside the films. As a thing, Star Wars is 9 movies and then some other stuff. There certainly is a huge amount of great Star Wars content outside those films, but it is all fanfiction to some degree or another.

 

[payn]

Yeah I think Evil PCs can be fine so long as they're "high functioning Evil" - TV is absolutely full of characters like this. People who can cooperate and be effective in a party, okay to be around most of the time, and even have values and lines they don't cross - but for whom those lines might not include, say, murder, theft, arson, etc.

Yeah it’s a fine line but one ripe with opportunity. Once you get past evil meaning steal all babies candy and kick every puppy. Sometimes it just requires pulling back and looking at a bigger picture.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That was a pithy response. Let me amend: there is no Star Wars text outside the screen, and mostly outside the films. As a thing, Star Wars is 9 movies and then some other stuff. There certainly is a huge amount of great Star Wars content outside those films, but it is all fanfiction to some degree or another.

I don't understand what you mean. Is Star Wars Lucas-only to you? Because that would exclude the sequel trilogy and include at least the concept behind the Clone Wars TV series.