D&D (2024) D&D Pre-orders; this is sad

Well... when you find that Socialist society that starts releasing roleplaying game products, go play them for a bit and come back to tell us how the game went. :D

I have. I have played so many RPGs from several countries.

Did you know Capitalistic Societies/Countries aren't the only ones to make Roleplaying Games?
 

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I was away for a full week for vacations. I'm catching up on the news, I saw this, and I felt really sad.

View attachment 370496
I'll be transparent. I grew tired of 5E about three years ago and haven't touched it since. Solely for these reasons. But the whole OGL debacle and all the other red flags that I saw pop in the last week made it very clear that, interest or not in the rules, I ought to stay away from the game and the company owning it.

However, the game still has a massive influence on the industry and community of TTRPG so I take interest in the news. And seeing this preorder page is exactly what I feared would happen many months ago.

For context, I work in the video games industry. It's an industry that's incredibly creative and remarkable in many ways. But it's also an industry that has been strangled for almost a decade by rapacious capitalism and greed. Games get more and more pricier to develop and the marketing budgets are exploding, all in the goal of projecting value and convincing customers that your game is the one to buy. These high cost lead companies to hire rapacious CEOs that take away tens of millions of dollars in salaries, while cutting away employees in wave and cribbling games with questionable monetary practices. So many design decisions are taken not being it'll make a better game and give you more fun, but because it'll make you feel bad and get you to spend. It's a big disgusting.

And for those that don't know, there's been records massive layoff in the industry. Tens of thousands have lost their jobs in the past 18 months.

The image above? It's exactly the first step into the same model. I don't know how the TTRPG industry will react, the composition and balance of its ecosystem is quite different than video games; however, it cannot be positive. Less than a decade ago, a video game offering a DLC too soon after launch was questionable; did the devs cut some content from the game to make you spend more? Now, every release has such practices. Early accesses, different tiers, fear of missing out, exclusives.

You used to be able to buy one product. You buy the book, you have the book, you play the game. You want more book? There's more books. It won't be the same. And, rightfully so, many will say "but you can still just buy the book and ignore all of that!". The thing, is that if my experience proves me right, the kind of practices detailed above will be embraced and accepted by enough people that it will prove the executives right. "That's where the money is." And it will continue to drift in that direction. With video games, you cannot just "buy the game" and ignore the naughty word. Your product is already cut in pieces. You pay the full price, get a part of it. And the design of your products is affected by it. They do not design the best product possible, they design the product they can monetize the most.

I guarantee that in a set number of years, it will all be subscription based and you will own nothing and be happy.

I will anxiously be looking at the general reception of all of this. I wasn't planning to, but I now know 100% that I will not buy any more Wizards of the Coast products. I cannot participate in telling them that this path is the best one for us, because it's not.

I will look even more anxiously to the rest of the ecosystem, the OSR, the indie games, the other systems like Call of Cthulu, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, etc. Will they follow suit? Will it affect it? How?

I can't be the only one shaken by this.
I started reading but never could find what your problem is. Then I started skimming and probably missed it. I still have no idea what your issue is.
 


Thanks for posting that, Velderan!

I'm not clear on how exactly the D&D Beyond releases relate to this early access for FLGS.

For example, their site says the FLGS early release is "May 7, ahead of the global release of the book on May 21.

But are the D&D Beyond 1-week early / 2-weeks early meaning "1 or 2 weeks before global release"? Or something else?
They're the same date.
 

The artificial early access, the exclusive goods for the bundle, the number of frames and backdrop which immediately tells you how they intend to run the VTT and the integration with DBB. You'll pay for every little bit.

So, offing up entirely cosmetic content as an incentive makes you worry?

Never mind that games that are free-to-play, but offer cosmetics as a paid offering, get lauded for that model?

Getting access a week early for a game you can play through in a week is meaningful to some, but for one where they expect you to play for years, it is kind of a nothingburger.

They do not want you to buy a book, own it and be able to ignore them and their new content.

So they sell me the digital content... with the book?
The only level shown that includes GM content... includes the books?
And how they're still selling books through all the book-channels?

Are you sure selling you the books (often at discount) really demonstrates how they don't want you having the books?

Their goal is to get you to have to be on their digital platform and have to pay monthly to play.

Your evidence for this is?
Given they still support you buying content without having a subscription?

To have to pay 1.99$ if you want a 3D model of a goblin, and you' don't have a choice because the game has moved entirely digitally.

Except, of course, how
1) It isn't only digital, and they are actively pushing bundles with the books.
2) You can still play the game on other VTT platforms.

As I said elsewhere - fear is a thing. But fear is the mind-killer. Do not rely upon your fear for judgements.
 


I have. I have played so many RPGs from several countries.

Did you know Capitalistic Societies/Countries aren't the only ones to make Roleplaying Games?

No... no....

Too late. Now I'm looking on google for a good index of how capitalistic different countries are and trying to guess which ones those RPGs are from and how capitalist the countries are rated. (As any results I find will be off topic and real world they will not be reported here).
 
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I was away for a full week for vacations. I'm catching up on the news, I saw this, and I felt really sad.

View attachment 370496
I'll be transparent. I grew tired of 5E about three years ago and haven't touched it since. Solely for these reasons. But the whole OGL debacle and all the other red flags that I saw pop in the last week made it very clear that, interest or not in the rules, I ought to stay away from the game and the company owning it.

However, the game still has a massive influence on the industry and community of TTRPG so I take interest in the news. And seeing this preorder page is exactly what I feared would happen many months ago.

For context, I work in the video games industry. It's an industry that's incredibly creative and remarkable in many ways. But it's also an industry that has been strangled for almost a decade by rapacious capitalism and greed. Games get more and more pricier to develop and the marketing budgets are exploding, all in the goal of projecting value and convincing customers that your game is the one to buy. These high cost lead companies to hire rapacious CEOs that take away tens of millions of dollars in salaries, while cutting away employees in wave and cribbling games with questionable monetary practices. So many design decisions are taken not being it'll make a better game and give you more fun, but because it'll make you feel bad and get you to spend. It's a big disgusting.

And for those that don't know, there's been records massive layoff in the industry. Tens of thousands have lost their jobs in the past 18 months.

The image above? It's exactly the first step into the same model. I don't know how the TTRPG industry will react, the composition and balance of its ecosystem is quite different than video games; however, it cannot be positive. Less than a decade ago, a video game offering a DLC too soon after launch was questionable; did the devs cut some content from the game to make you spend more? Now, every release has such practices. Early accesses, different tiers, fear of missing out, exclusives.

You used to be able to buy one product. You buy the book, you have the book, you play the game. You want more book? There's more books. It won't be the same. And, rightfully so, many will say "but you can still just buy the book and ignore all of that!". The thing, is that if my experience proves me right, the kind of practices detailed above will be embraced and accepted by enough people that it will prove the executives right. "That's where the money is." And it will continue to drift in that direction. With video games, you cannot just "buy the game" and ignore the naughty word. Your product is already cut in pieces. You pay the full price, get a part of it. And the design of your products is affected by it. They do not design the best product possible, they design the product they can monetize the most.

I guarantee that in a set number of years, it will all be subscription based and you will own nothing and be happy.

I will anxiously be looking at the general reception of all of this. I wasn't planning to, but I now know 100% that I will not buy any more Wizards of the Coast products. I cannot participate in telling them that this path is the best one for us, because it's not.

I will look even more anxiously to the rest of the ecosystem, the OSR, the indie games, the other systems like Call of Cthulu, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, etc. Will they follow suit? Will it affect it? How?

I can't be the only one shaken by this.
man, I know the feeling, the only thing I might be willing to buy is either books with good lore or classes that are too innovative to pass up but I doubt either of those are likely to happen they are too corporate for that.

everything feels like it is dying off which is sad when you're still young as you never got to see the height of things only the fall to ruin
We dont even have the cool cyber. It's just all dystopia.
it is just depressing .
 

What’s the issue, exactly? The bundle pricing? I’m not clear what the prices are from that image.
I do not see the issue either and I commented on it and their was a dog pile with the implication that I was defending WOTC.

I do not see the problem with them sweetening the pot to pre-order books that I was going to buy anyway. The only real benefit is the discount and that you receive even if you are not a subscriber!

The other items are benefits or perks for subscribers.

Now, if WOTC ever went to a model where I am forced to subscribe then I have enough gaming material to game for the rest of my life.

The two week early thing that people are mad about is nuts for a game that takes months or years for a campaign. Again, it is a perk for subscribers. They are not removing content from the books or forcing you to pay more for the complete game. In fact, they are granting discounts.
 
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