D&D 5E Is trafficking in soul coins ostensibly evil?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

A lot of people here are weirdly conflating lawfulness ("is it the rule of the land") with goodness ("is this an act that hurts or harms others").

It's been a while since we've had a good old fashioned alignment war, but maybe it's time for one again.

 

[Necropolitan]

Yeah, it's more comparable to if you were operating in the slave owning South, and you kept some slaves on hand in case you needed to buy some expensive goods, because they were easier to deal with than having a lot of cash? Which is A weird concept in reality, but in a fantasy game, that's how these things work.

That is absolutely Evil.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That is absolutely Evil.

Yeah, hard to argue it not being evil when you look at it from that perspective.

 

[Necropolitan]

By spending your own dollars, you legitimize the value of a dollar, and thus legitimize the unethical use it has been put to. But if you don't spend dollars, how do you live in this society?

No, that's not the same at all.

The act of using a dollar is a morally neutral one. Using a soul coin is evil because it's literally a person.

Owning a soul coin is slavery and using it is trading a slave.

 

[Scribe]

That is absolutely Evil.

Again though.

Law. Its not a discussion of Good/Evil.

LG/LE? They care about Good and Evil.

LN? Thats just Law. Law doesnt care about morality, it does not care if you are selfish. It does not care if you give to charity, help old ladies cross the street, or protect the innocent.

Blind, Cold, Justice.

LN.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Soul coins exist in a multiverse where souls objectively exist and, by the time the PCs are able to be in regular contact with them, they have no illusions about how the existence of souls. Use of soul coins in infernal vehicles (and presumably other infernal devices), as I recall, destroys the soul and prevents those people from ever being reborn and having a chance at becoming a better person and going on to a better state.

A good-aligned person should be throwing as many soul coins into a portable hole as they can and bringing them to the upper planes to try and free them.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Its not a discussion of Good/Evil.

The thread title should be changed, then.

Use of soul coins in Hell is lawful.

But we don't have to go into a fantasy realm to know that lawfulness and goodness aren't synonymous.

 

[Necropolitan]

LN? Thats just Law. Law doesnt care about morality, it does not care if you are selfish. It does not care if you give to charity, help old ladies cross the street, or protect the innocent.

Blind, Cold, Justice.

No it's not. It's not just one thing.

A Monk completely dedicated to their discipline and training can be Lawful Neutral even if they're violating the law of the land.

Someone completely dedicated to a code that forbids slavery that doesn't care what they have to do to get rid of slavery can be Lawful Neutral.

"Law" doesn't necessarily mean literal laws, it can also be a code or some other form of order.

A Lawful Neutral character who participates in the slave trade is going to become Lawful Evil incredibly quickly.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Yes, very evil. Unless you intend to free any souls from the coins you get.

 

[Scribe]

A Monk completely dedicated to their discipline and training can be Lawful Neutral even if they're violating the law of the land.

Sure, thats why these terms need to be better defined by the DM, for ones table, if they are leaning into questions of Alignment at all.

Being dedicated to ones discipline in my mind, is not Law, at a cosmic scale.