D&D (2024) D&D Pre-orders; this is sad

Now? WotC has always been that way.
Possibly. It felt like that by moments, but it was never obvious. They were limited by their success and the moderate size of their industry. Now that they've exploded in value and that they have the means to choose a path, they made it obvious.

Their recent aggressive monetization of Magic the Gathering in the last 3-4 years was a telltale sign for me.
 

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Possibly. It felt like that by moments, but it was never obvious. They were limited by their success and the moderate size of their industry. Now that they've exploded in value and that they have the means to choose a path, they made it obvious.

Their recent aggressive monetization of Magic the Gathering in the last 3-4 years was a telltale sign for me.
Magic has been aggressively monetized for over 30 years...? WotC has always been run this way, I saw that as a teenager.
 

Magic has been aggressively monetized for over 30 years...? WotC has always been run this way, I saw that as a teenager.
It didn't seem so aggressively monetized to me. Of course the cards are pricy for what they really are, and they didn't shy away from the rarity dynamic to drive up the price of cards. But it still felt like they wanted to make the best possible product and just released more of it to increase revenues.

But their recent trend of incorporating every known IP, accelerating the release rate the releases and the atrocious release of the 30th anniversary packs sealed it for me.

To be fair, I was off of MTG between 2012 and 2018, so I might have missed other episodes.
 


I would say that you maybe just didn't notice what they were doing. So you could argue that it was more cleverly monetized in the past, but it was always the same.

It seems less of a thing with Commander being the push instead of Modern/Standard. There are so many fairly similar cards to pick from and so many possible commanders now, that playing Commander doesn't seem that brutal unless you must have the hot new thing. (Totally nee cards appearing in Secret Lair seems meh, and if they are also limited print run that is total garbage).
 


The topic has been cleared many times. I was not the best at explaining my point succinctly, but others did.

You want facts? In the last two years WotC proved to us that they're a hyper-corporate environment that puts their profit before their customer, the quality of their product, the ecosystem in which it evolves. They attempted to sneakily take over the OGL with some incredibly predatory clauses which might have hurt the ecosystem a ton. They went against their word regarding the usage of AI multiple times. And that's without talking about the Pinkertons, the sensitivity issues, etc.

The people that take decisions are not passionated creatives anymore. They said D&D is undermonetized, they said they wanted to move intro other quadrants, we've seen an enormous amount of garbage merch of all kind popup. Now, allow me to be clear, they're not worse than other hyper-corporate entities, they're just one of them now.

You want more facts? They bought D&D Beyond and they're developing their own VTT. Both are closed ecosystems where they get full control over what you own, what they put out and the terms of use. There are numerous cases in other industries (software, video games, hardware) where closed ecosystem prove to be problematic for users and their rights.

Now, the image I shared at the start. Is it world-ending? No. It's some book bundles. However, the details, which are the little insignificant things like the number of backdrops, the enticing to buying more with exclusive material, the early access. These are all elements I've seen in other industries. They're a first step, and in every case I've seen the second, third and subsequent steps taken.

I'm seeing this as a warning sign of what's to come. Will it necessarily come to pass? No. Is this thread motivated by fear? Yes it is.

You know what I think will happen? Here it is, clearly layed out, in a very rough chronological order.
1) They will continue to increase the monetization of products outside of the books. They will sell you models in the VTT, avatars, exclusive packs on D&D Beyond. They will entice you to go online with bonus content if you have a DDB account, etc.
2) At one point, the over-monetized will generate more revenue than the books. At this point, they will increase the pressure by increasing the value proposition in the digital part, in their closed ecosystem. 3RD parties will have to follow their rules, or they won't be allowed on their VTT or on DDB; and for anyone wanting to make some revenue that will mean failure (just like the app stores on phones).
3) Eventually, there will be so much incentive to push people completely in their closed ecosystem tied with movies, video games that they will decrease the value proposition of the books.
4) Finally, the erosion towards their closed digital platforms will be so far, that they will simply stop making the books. Or they won't stop, because it won't matter and the majority of the customers will be on the digital platforms. They target audience will have changed.

That someone would tell me that they don't think things will go down that path can be both fine and logical to me. Howerver, I can't fathom how anyone would look at me like a crazy man when this exact enshittification has happened in so many other spheres of our life. We have so many examples of how gross capitalism has affected some IPs, some companies, their products and how some, much bigger than D&D, have shifted audiences suddenly. It's hard for me to not look outside the window right now and see signs of this everywhere.

If you think WotC are a good-hearted company and that there's no reason to worry at all. Fine. You can feel that way. And I'm interested in hearing what makes you feel that way, you might have a different perspective and background than me. I'm actually interested in discussions. But the way you feel towards this is not more or less legitimate than how I feel.
I don’t think you are wrong. However, there is a very key detail (for me) that is almost all that matters.

They may/may not keep making the books.

If they do, they can monetize anything else they want. It won’t effect me and the people I game with much.

If they stopped with the print or buy/own digital stuff, then I would be annoyed/be done with them.

I don’t think that will happen any time soon.

But of course they will squeeze people anyway they can. Shareholders and all that. All I can do is shrug…not for me but as long as I can get what I want, it’s ok. I don’t believe they will quit with the books. Like you said, that will just be gravy if they get enough people to play a monetized game.

In the meantime I got books, plastic monsters and home made terrain :D and it will be ok
 

recreate, not simply print the SRD which supposedly contains all of 5e (“everything is written there”), as was suggested

Is there something missing in particular that would be devastating to lose? Most of what isn't in the SRD to my knowledge is IP specific stuff, like Beholders and Mindflayers. Which are not required, nor are they difficult to re-color and re-add.
 

So ... basically the problem is that WotC wants to make money? This comes as a shock to anyone? Oh, and they're going to make something truly amazing that people will want to use so we'll be "captive" somehow?

So the plan is
A) Develop a game people want to play
B) Attract millions of new players, including a new generation
C) Invest in online tools because a lot of people play virtually.

Which is pretty much where we are now. Throw in some mistakes that should have never been made in the first place but were also never implemented. State the obvious that WotC is a business and a corporation using inflammatory descriptors.

D) Throw around a bunch of buzzwords that don't really apply so that we can declare a state of near emergency because of where the future could hypothetically lead.

Up until step D I agree. WotC is a corporation out to make a buck. If they continue to make products I find valuable I'll continue purchasing the ones that I will use. If I ever did VTT again, I'll consider WotC's version in comparison to other options.

There is no indication they are pursuing a walled garden approach, exactly the opposite with putting stuff in CC and opening up DDB to 3PP. Microtransactions? Ever buy miniatures? Dice? DM screens or terrain? How is that any different?

There is no reason for them to ever stop selling books as long as there is significant demand. If they make, or license, video games I purchase and enjoy, how is that an issue?

The sky is not falling.
 

I don’t think you are wrong. However, there is a very key detail (for me) that is almost all that matters.

They may/may not keep making the books.

If they do, they can monetize anything else they want. It won’t effect me and the people I game with much.

If they stopped with the print or buy/own digital stuff, then I would be annoyed/be done with them.

I don’t think that will happen any time soon.

But of course they will squeeze people anyway they can. Shareholders and all that. All I can do is shrug…not for me but as long as I can get what I want, it’s ok. I don’t believe they will quit with the books. Like you said, that will just be gravy if they get enough people to play a monetized game.

In the meantime I got books, plastic monsters and home made terrain :D and it will be ok
Yeah, I could see a situation where WotC makes products I don't want and I move away from them (already happened in 2008), but today doesn't look to be this day.
 

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