D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

[Micah Sweet]

Personally, I think the decision to frame it as a Hail Mary hurt Divine Intervention’s reception a lot. When you’re in a “moment of great need” with no options left but to make a desperate plea and hope it works, a 10% of anything happening at all is just going to be narratively unsatisfying most of the time (90% of the time, to be specific), which makes the ability feel nearly useless. What made it click for me was thinking about it not as an emergency button, but as the cleric’s daily prayers. Every morning, the Cleric prays for a miracle, and eventually, their god actually answers. But the kinds of things you would ask for every day are different than the things you would ask for in the heat of a desperate situation. It’s not “dear God, save me from this foe,” it’s “please bring back our departed friend,” or “please protect this villiage from evil,” or “please strike down this dastardly villain.” As a tool for long-term action, it feels incredibly powerful.

Understandable if you share that preference. As you know, however, narrative satisfaction is not my priority when I play or run D&D.

 

[Charlaquin]

Understandable if you share that preference. As you know, however, narrative satisfaction is not my priority when I play or run D&D.

My point is, the exact same ability feels much more powerful when you think of it as a 10% chance per day of having your prayers directly answered, instead of a 10% of something happening to save you for a bad situation. I think people would have been much less down on it if the book had framed it that way.

Doesn’t stop you from using it in a desperate moment if you want or need to, but makes it seem less “unreliable gambit” and more “ask enough times and eventually ye shall receive.”

 

[Stalker0]

The old ability is wonky. Why keep the name then? Explain your positioning and rename the 2024 version. Maybe my complaint seems trivial but I've always had a pet peeve about game mechanics not matching their names or fluff.

Backwards compatibility. They don't want only thing to reference "divine intervention" and a 2024 cleric player going "um...what's that?

So they in general never change the name on an ability unless its gotten totally removed or they are doing it for cultural sensitivity (like the monk's ki points appartantely)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

My point is, the exact same ability feels much more powerful when you think of it as a 10% chance per day of having your prayers directly answered, instead of a 10% of something happening to save you for a bad situation. I think people would have been much less down on it if the book had framed it that way.

Doesn’t stop you from using it in a desperate moment if you want or need to, but makes it seem less “unreliable gambit” and more “ask enough times and eventually ye shall receive.”

Never thought of this ability this way.
So the intend was praying for a week to practically cast a cleric spell of up to ninth level? I would not call that divine intervention either...

 

[Charlaquin]

Never thought of this ability this way.
So the intend was praying for a week to practically cast a cleric spell of up to ninth level? I would not call that divine intervention either...

I don’t know what the intent was, but I think it’s a way of thinking about the feature that makes it much more appealing. Instead of a Hail Mary with a 90% chance of failing (which feels pretty close to useless), thinking of it as a solid chance that with a week or so of asking for your god’s aid every day, they will eventually step in and help you out in some significant way, feels much more valuable.

I also don’t think of it as limited to the effects of a Cleric spell. Sure, that’s listed as an example of what kinds of effects might be appropriate, but I think of it very much like wish; if you just pray for a resurrection, then the DM knows that’s appropriate to grant with no strings attached. If you pray to protect an area from danger, the DM can look to the Cleric spell list and say, “well, Hallow seems to fit the bill.” If you pray to smite the BBEG of the campaign, the DM probably isn’t going to just have that happen automatically, but they might use fiat to give you some major boon that will help against them. It’s all ultimately up to DM judgment, and the cleric spell list serves as a source of inspiration for the DM to inform what benefits they might grant.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, that might be a good way to reframe the ability. Once per day, you can attempt to cast Wish. If you use it to reproduce the effect of a 5th level or lower Cleric spell, it works automatically. If you use it to produce any other effect, roll percentile dice. On a roll of your cleric level or lower, the spell is successful, otherwise it fails.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don’t know what the intent was, but I think it’s a way of thinking about the feature that makes it much more appealing. Instead of a Hail Mary with a 90% chance of failing (which feels pretty close to useless), thinking of it as a solid chance that with a week or so of asking for your god’s aid every day, they will eventually step in and help you out in some significant way, feels much more valuable.

I also don’t think of it as limited to the effects of a Cleric spell. Sure, that’s listed as an example of what kinds of effects might be appropriate, but I think of it very much like Wish; if you just pray for a resurrection, then the DM knows that’s appropriate to grant with no strings attached. If you pray to protect an area from danger, the DM can look to the Cleric spell list and say, “well, Hallow seems to fit the bill.” If you pray to smite the BBEG of the campaign, the DM probably isn’t going to just have that happen automatically, but they might use fiat to give you some major boon that will help against them. It’s all ultimately up to DM judgment, and the cleric spell list serves as a source of inspiration for the DM to inform what benefits they might grant.

Ok. I like the old ability even less than I did before.
And I will now call it "divine pestering" from now on.

 

[OB1]

I really like the new Divine Inspiration feature, but will likely add the ability to use it in the old way as well (with the same limitation that if it works, you loose access for a week, and if it doesn't it still counts as the use for the day). Keeps the Hail Mary there for when you really, really need it, but is more generally useful overall.

 

[Maxperson]

Ok. I like the old ability even less than I did before.
And I will now call it "divine pestering" from now on.

The new version is "divine lapdog" where your god has to come when you snap your fingers for a 5th level or lower spell.

The old version with a greater chance of success seems to me to be the best version.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The new version is "divine lapdog" where your god has to come when you snap your fingers for a 5th level or lower spell.

The old version with a greater chance of success seems to me to be the best version.

Maybe. But I would have 7 days between usages even if it does not work.

 

[Stalker0]

The new version is "divine lapdog" where your god has to come when you snap your fingers for a 5th level or lower spell.

The old version with a greater chance of success seems to me to be the best version.

nah, they have servants for that kind of stuff sure you might pray to Pelor, but really your getting Pelor's lackey secretary Lamelor.

Beyond that, I mean the cleric is praying for spells every day, and the god (or lackeys) seem to have no issue with it, that's a whole lot of "pestering", yet the gods don't seem to mind