D&D (2024) D&D species article

[Chaosmancer]

I also think people underestimate the effect of small changes.

The level 1 Monk being able to bonus action attack regardless of their primary action seems like a very small change. But in terms of impact, it completely upended the way I consider low-level monk play and has the potential to make level 1 monks way more than they used to be.

For Searing smite, changing the order of operations so the enemy takes the DoT then makes the save to end, massively ups the viability of the spell.

I think people might sometimes mix up the perceived ease of implementing these changes, with the sheer amount of difference they will end up making at the table.

 

[Corinnguard]

What serious competition?

Good question, which of the 5e-adjacent RPGs do you think will do a Pathfinder, and pull into the lead?

 

[Parmandur]

Good question, which of the 5e-adjacent RPGs do you think will do a Pathfinder, and pull into the lead?

Realistically, none.

The only thing coming down the pipeline that might really make a big splash are Daggerheart (which isn't really a 5E like) or Stormlight Archives (also not really a 5E alike).

 

[Horwath]

This is rich coming from the guy who literally wants to turn everything into feats...

only difference between feats and features is being gated by class for reasons...

and feat can be anything, including spells, but not exclusive to spells.

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah, I think that is a major point in favor of evergreen rules.

I dont think the goal is "evergreen rules", per se. I think goal is listening to the customer base. (Heh, which is something no edition before 5e did.) If enough customers want new rules, WotC will happily supply them.

Right now, most customers seem happy enough with 5e 2014. 5e 2024 is looking to be more about consolidating the rules from over the decade, polishing rough edges, even filling in a few gaps, such as tool proficiencies. 5e 2024 is 2014 working a bit more smoothly and pleasantly.

 

[mellored]

I think goal is listening to the customer base. (Heh, which is something no edition before 5e did.)

That's not true. All editions took feedback. Gygax add the Thief based on someone suggestion.

But gathering feedback pre-internet is a lot more slow and spotty. You couldn't read 1000 letters.

Even 4e got feedback from volunteers playtesters.

5e is the first one done in mass with modern communications tools. Definitely a step up in the quantity and quality of feedback, but they always did it.

 

[Yaarel]

That's not true. All editions took feedback. Gygax add the Thief based on someone suggestion.

But gathering feedback pre-internet is a lot more slow and spotty. You couldn't read 1000 letters.

Even 4e got feedback from volunteers playtesters.

5e is the first one done in mass with modern communications tools. Definitely a step up in the quantity and quality of feedback, but they always did it.

I mean listening to all the customers − via extensive surveys. Of course DMs get inspiration from players at ones gaming table, including Gygaxs. In the earlier editions including 4e, the designers did whatever they wanted, and hoped for the best when the product went to market.

By contrast, 5e is designed in response to feedback. The book isnt even out yet, and for the most part, we already know most of what is there.

 

[mellored]

I mean listening to all the customers − via extensive surveys.

Well I know at least 8 other people who didn't even know there was a player test, and 7 that didn't have time to fill it out. So definitely not all.

I'd be surprised if they got 10% of all players.

But yes. 5e did a much more thorough job of it.

 

[Yaarel]

Well I know at least 8 other people who didn't even know there was a player test, and 7 that didn't have time to fill it out. So definitely not all.

I'd be surprised if they got 10% of all players.

But yes. 5e did a much more thorough job of it.

That is democracy. Government by those who care.

 

[Parmandur]

I dont think the goal is "evergreen rules", per se. I think goal is listening to the customer base. (Heh, which is something no edition before 5e did.) If enough customers want new rules, WotC will happily supply them.

Right now, most customers seem happy enough with 5e 2014. 5e 2024 is looking to be more about consolidating the rules from over the decade, polishing rough edges, even filling in a few gaps, such as tool proficiencies. 5e 2024 is 2014 working a bit more smoothly and pleasantly.

Why assume those are even different at all...?

At any rate, WotC has been explicit for a decade that evergreen rules are their goal and bussiness model, after they started listening to fans. I think they have succeeded, and D&D is already well onto the evergreen era.