D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

I think they believe they’re being succinct and think that’s the same thing as clear. It’s also written in a way that seems designed to take the DM out of the role of being an adjudicator.
I think I understand what they were trying to do in some ways. For example with the base DC 15.

Consider this: whenever you try to be quite or move without being noticed, you sort of think you are doing it unless the targets react. You have to mess up in an obvious way to know you failed and aren't being quite for example. That is what failing the DC 15 means--- you failed enough to know you are, in fact, NOT being quiet.

I'm hoping seeing some of this in context and actual use might make more sense for others. It doesn't matter for myself, though, since I know I won't be adapting it.

And it is a pity much of the design seems to want to remove the DM from the game...
 

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That’s the only way I can make sense of these stealth rules. Basically, my thinking is that the invisibility spell gives you this condition and makes you impossible to see without truesight or until the spell ends.
I agree that the rules as presented make no sense and using this interpretation improves things, I am just not sure that RAW is not RAI, given that the condition is called 'invisible' and not 'hidden'
 

It does not say you cannot be seen.

The Invisible condition has three effects:
1) Advantage on initiative
2) Not affected by effects that require their target to be seen, unless you are seen
3) Advantage on attacks, Disadvantage to attacks against you, unless you are seen

That's it. Nothing about not being visible. Nothing about search actions or noise.
Yep, that’s the conclusion I’ve arrived at as well, after a careful reading and some discussion in this thread.
But what about the Hide action? Well, you have to be out of any enemy's line of sight to even take it in the first place.

So you take the Hide action. You are out of any enemy's line of sight, and you roll over 15, so a success and you have the Invisible condition. You step into an enemy's line of sight. They find you. The condition ends.
So, I disagree with you on that point. I believe finding you does still require a successful Wisdom (Perception) check, even if the creature is looking right at you. This is a little odd at first blush, but functionally allows you to still benefit from the advantage on initiative part of the Invisible condition if you jump out of cover or obscuration to ambush a target.
 

Because "See Invisible" exists. As mentioned by Treantmonk, technically being invisible vs a creature with See Invisible still allowed you to have the benefits of being invisible (advantage to hit, disadvantage to being hit), despite being seen. This closes that loophole.


Personal view on some of this:

Say we're in a forest, and a rogue slips behind a tree and tries to hide. He has total cover at the moment, so he can attempt the Stealth check. He makes the roll, making him invisible. What impact does that have?

Well, if he loses the status as soon as he's in line of sight again, and there's nothing providing additional obscurement other than the trees, he's basically stuck staying behind that one tree.

However, by making him "invisible", we can now use the trope of him moving from tree to tree, carefully avoiding any enemy's sight, until he can sneak up behind the shaman that is directing the battle, or whatever.

This, to me, feels like the old Eagle Totem flight shtick: You can fly, but have to land at the end of your turn. In this case, you remain invisible, as long as you end up out of direct sight at the end of your turn. You can move in the open by taking advantage of lapses in attention — the chaos of battle, the guards talking to each other at the gate, the flow of the dance at the ball, etc — and be "invisible" because you aren't being "seen".

You lose the invisible status when you attack or do something else to draw attention to yourself.

In another situation, if a guard is guarding a warehouse door, standing like 10' in front of it, and you walk straight up to him, you can't possibly remain invisible. But if you carefully edged along the wall behind him, you might be able to avoid his attention and slip through the warehouse door, even though you're technically within range of his sight, given the usual, "Anything within 360° is fair game"-approach to visibility.

In a way, it's to allow for some of the tactics that facing rules might allow for, without actually having to implement facing rules.

And while it might not be part of the rules, I personally would say that a passive perception that beats the stealth roll of the rogue does not automatically reveal him; rather, I would instead say that a passive perception beating the stealth roll indicates to the creatures that something is amiss, and thus given them a reason to use the Search action.

In addition, there's a difference between giving up stealth entirely and just walking up, and trying to move stealthily towards a creature that happens to be looking your direction. If you're trying to maintain stealth, even taking advantage of lapses in attention to move towards someone who's looking your way, I'd still expect you to end your movement in a position where you can't readily be seen (ie: at least partial cover, dim lighting, light obscurement, etc). Being in direct view, completely out of cover and in bright light, when the creature's turn starts, I can't imagine not leading to the rogue being spotted.

A stupidly high stealth roll may let the rogue slip from potted plant to trophy pillar to tapestry as he sneaks up to the guards watching the king's bedroom door, but thematically, I'm OK with that. Sometimes players get to do crazy, over-the-top stuff. And I think treating being hidden as "invisibility" allows for that sort of thematic play.

Overall, it seems to be written to let you do cool stuff, as long as the GM keeps a handle on people trying to do stupid stuff.
This is pretty much my take on the matter also. I think it is a sensible approach and allows the classic sneak up on the guard and cold cock him.
 



I agree that the rules as presented make no sense and using this interpretation improves things, I am just not sure that RAW is not RAI, given that the condition is called 'invisible' and not 'hidden'
Like I said, I suspect that the bolded part is just a backwards compatibility thing, so that pre-revision effects that reference the condition still point to the correct place. My interpretation is, as far as I can tell, accurate to the RAW. Not 100% sure if it’s RAI, but I don’t see anything in the text of the invisible condition that says creatures can’t see you if you have it.
 

But the condition above says you can be affected by effects (I.e. spells) and attacks if they can see you. So the Invisible condition is not true invisibility to my mind or rather the spell Invisibility says something that’s different than Hide.
there is always truesight... that is what I thought the 'somehow see you' means, instead it it meaning the creature does not have their eyes closed. Not sure what the 'somehow' is for then
 

I think one of the main issues is there is no reason not to have eveyone in the party do this after every combat.

Even the 8 dex paladin. Just spend a few extra minutes till he rolls above a 16, and then talk in whispers to get advantage on Initiative saves and your first attack.
This is why the very idea of trying to make stealth a mode you activate instead of just using the normal action resolution rules is fundamentally flawed. Stealth checks should be called for only when a player describes their character trying to move about undetected and there is a chance they might do so, a chance they might be detected, and meaningful stakes for being detected.
 

Like I said, I suspect that the bolded part is just a backwards compatibility thing, so that pre-revision effects that reference the condition still point to the correct place. My interpretation is, as far as I can tell, accurate to the RAW. Not 100% sure if it’s RAI, but I don’t see anything in the text of the invisible condition that says creatures can’t see you if you have it.
in that case I would have preferred it to be named 'hidden' and the entry 'invisible' to refer to it. At least that way the name is not completely nonsensical and backwards compatibility is maintained. They should have room for those two lines of text
 

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