D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

​

 

[Demetrios1453]

That is fine, so am I. I want to hear from the other side so I can understand. Right now that is mostly @Stalker0 and @Demetrios1453 whom I both respect a lot. However, their reasoning has not really made sense to me yet so I am hoping they will come back with more clarity.

Hmm, it may just be that we have two different viewpoints on this. I'm not going to argue that stat blocks that separate the attacks are bad, just that I don't mind them being written in the same way for space considerations and then flavored by the DM. That's obviously much more of a sticking point for you, which I do understand, if not agree with. I guess I'm just more hopeful that new DMs can work that part out.

 

[dave2008]

Hmm, it may just be that we have two different viewpoints on this. I'm not going to argue that stat blocks that separate the attacks are bad, just that I don't mind them being written in the same way for space considerations and then flavored by the DM. That's obviously much more of a sticking point for you, which I do understand, if not agree with. I guess I'm just more hopeful that new DMs can work that part out.

To be clear, I am not concerned that a new DM can describe the attack as a claw or bite whatever. I am concerned they will not be able to add the mechanical bits that emphasis that at the table. I can do it, but I know that some DMs only do what is on the stat block and nothing more. If they get a dragon that can only rend, it is only going to rend. I can't "hope" DMs can work it out because I know some can't.

Again, I am fine using just the rend for my games. But I rarely think of things just from my viewpoint (even if I start there)

 

[mamba]

As I mentioned before, we're not seeing the entire entry for green dragons here. There could very well be text like "The green dragon uses is teeth and claws to perform fearsome rend attacks" on the previous pages.

we are seeing text, I am not expecting that kind of explanation in the text

 

[dave2008]

we are seeing text, I am not expecting that kind of explanation in the text

I don't expect it either, but nor would that be enough IMO. Simply describing a rend as a bite attack does not make it feel like one at the table, particularly if the "claw" attack does the exact same thing.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Bite and claws seem to be changing to rend attacks for the most part from the look of the PHB.

Like the Lion for example

Edit:2014 Lion

 

[Hexmage-EN]

If there was a meaningful mechanical distinction between bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing I'd be more concerned, but the way the majority of attacks work the three damage types could be consolidated to physical damage or something.

 

[cbwjm]

If there was a meaningful mechanical distinction between bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing I'd be more concerned, but the way the majority of attacks work the three damage types could be consolidated to physical damage or something.

I often think the same thing and sometimes say I rolled 9 physical damage instead of one of the 3 currently.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If there was a meaningful mechanical distinction between bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing I'd be more concerned, but the way the majority of attacks work the three damage types could be consolidated to physical damage or something.

This is true, so if that's the only difference between attacks, I don't care if they're consolidated. So giving a tiger 2 x rend instead of claw & bite is fine. But I think different dragon attacks should have more substantive differences.

 

[dave2008]

Bite and claws seem to be changing to rend attacks for the most part from the look of the PHB.

Like the Lion for example

Edit:2014 Lion

View attachment 375152

That started at least with Bigby's, see below. I don't mind a general trend for simple monsters, but I would like more specific attacks with more options for more complex and iconic monsters like dragons.

 

[dave2008]

PS, no one really made a fuss about this with the time dragons in the Planescape books, see below. I noted it, but I don't really care to much about time dragons so I don't recall saying anything about it myself. When I did my own Time dragon I kept Rend for the claws but at bite, tail, and wing attacks: Ancient Time Dragon

Planescape Time Dragon: