D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[mamba]

could equally ask you to show me where it says a Longsword doesn't deal 33d10 damage

it says that where it tells you how much damage it actually deals, any damage formula other than the one in that location is one it does not use

 

[mellored]

So you're set to punish if your players try to use RAW here?

If the players want to do it that way.

I, as the DM, will have monsters do it that way too.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

RAW works fine, until it doesn't.

Bag of rats. Commoner railgun. Coffeelocks. Pun Pun. The game has plenty of "well according to the rules" areas that are RAW but not RAI and players trying to abuse the system deserve what they get coming to them.

But this is not some obscure rare rules interaction one needs to intentionally exploit, in this situation the plain and stated basic functionality of the rule is crazy.

 

[Amrûnril]

Edit: The invisibility spell had been quoted in in earlier discussions as ending when taking damage, but based on screenshots, it appears the actual condition is dealing damage, which matches the spirit, if not the letter, of the 2014 rules.

Stepping away from the definition of "invisible" for a moment, it appears there's a another change to spell-based invisibility in the 2024 rules.

2014 Invisibility Spell: A creature you touch becomes invisible until the spell ends. Anything the target is wearing or carrying is invisible as long as it is on the target's person. The spell ends for a target that attacks or casts a spell.

2024 version (as posted by @DavyGreenwind): The Target has the Invisible condition until the spell ends. It ends early if the creature takes damage, casts a spell or makes an attack.

I don't recall this change or the reasoning for it being discussed in any of the UAs, but it seems quite significant. Whereas the 2014 version continues until you take a potentially hostile action (or an opponent uses a specialized ability to counter it), the 2014 version can easily be negated by mundane enemy attacks. This doesn't matter much if you're using invisibility to avoid detection entirely, but it makes the spell much weaker if you're trying to disengage from combat or protect a vulnerable character.

 

[Remathilis]

But this is not some obscure rare rules interaction one needs to intentionally exploit, in this situation the plain and stated basic functionality of the rule is crazy.

I'll agree insofar as we have only seen much of this material second-hand. The fact that as-far-as-I-know no influencer has lit their hair on fire screaming about how broken stealth is tells me we might not have all the context yet. We certainly don't have any idea what the DMG is going to say on the matter.

It is very possible this ends up a giant clusterfudge, but I'm interested in seeing both the actual PHB and potentially the DMG before I declare this a complete boondoggle.

But I will still laugh in the face of anyone who thinks they can hide in a forest, walk past the guards and moon the King on his throne all while being "invisible" from a DC 15 hide check...

 

[Argyle King]

As far as I am aware, they are the same.

The options for actions a mount can take are even less than they already were. As I understand it, a warhorse can no longer attack if it has a rider.

 

[Argyle King]

Stepping away from the definition of "invisible" for a moment, it appears there's a another change to spell-based invisibility in the 2024 rules.

2014 Invisibility Spell: A creature you touch becomes invisible until the spell ends. Anything the target is wearing or carrying is invisible as long as it is on the target's person. The spell ends for a target that attacks or casts a spell.

2024 version (as posted by @DavyGreenwind): The Target has the Invisible condition until the spell ends. It ends early if the creature takes damage, casts a spell or makes an attack.

I don't recall this change or the reasoning for it being discussed in any of the UAs, but it seems quite significant. Whereas the 2014 version continues until you take a potentially hostile action (or an opponent uses a specialized ability to counter it), the 2014 version can easily be negated by mundane enemy attacks. This doesn't matter much if you're using invisibility to avoid detection entirely, but it makes the spell much weaker if you're trying to disengage from combat or protect a vulnerable character.

Note that the 2024 version specifies the "invisible condition."

 

[Micah Sweet]

If the players want to do it that way.

I, as the DM, will have monsters do it that way too.

I'm all for fair's fair.

 

[Mistwell]

.nevermind

 

[mamba]

I don't recall this change or the reasoning for it being discussed in any of the UAs, but it seems quite significant.

I like it, also, by the time you take damage, someone certainly suspects that you are there