D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[TiQuinn]

It's also worth noting Command lasts 1 round. Six seconds. "Surrender" means the foe gives up, for one round. "Repent" means the foe spends 6 seconds rethinking its life. "Potty humor" is at best drop their weapon and/or lose their action. (Even if you allow it, see above). It's not a one-word wish spell. It's a delay tactic at best.

Exactly. It’s not an ongoing charm. It’s momentary.

 

[MarkB]

AGAIN my issue is I feel the 2014 Command ENCOURAGED PROBLEM PLAYERS TO IGNORE SESSION ZERO AND LINES AND VEILS and then cry "muh creativity!" when called on it.

Maybe you need to accept that this is simply your feeling and not objective reality. I've never seen any suggestion prior to yours in this thread that this is the case.

 

[Oofta]

Why does the spell need to be limited at all?

Why does any spell need to be limited? It's magic after all.

If you have a set list you know what's going to happen and you don't have to guess how it's going to be interpreted. It's easier to know what the effect will be for player and DM alike.

Seems to me like a lot of people complaining that they're making this spell clearer turn around and bemoan the lack of clarity elsewhere. It's just not a big deal.

 

[TiQuinn]

Why does any spell need to be limited? It's magic after all.

If you have a set list you know what's going to happen and you don't have to guess how it's going to be interpreted. It's easier to know what the effect will be for player and DM alike.

Seems to me like a lot of people complaining that they're making this spell clearer turn around and bemoan the lack of clarity elsewhere. It's just not a big deal.

Sure but current 5e seems to thread the needle perfectly fine but giving set options with defined results while still allowing other options to be adjudicated by the DM.

Seems reasonable to keep that for 5.5.

 

[Oofta]

Sure but current 5e seems to thread the needle perfectly fine but giving set options with defined results while still allowing other options to be adjudicated by the DM.

Seems reasonable to keep that for 5.5.

I'm never going to agree with every decision they make. I just don't see this having any significant impact while also improving it.

 

[MarkB]

Sure but current 5e seems to thread the needle perfectly fine but giving set options with defined results while still allowing other options to be adjudicated by the DM.

Keeping that aspect would've been nice, but I'm happy to trade it for losing the language dependency.

 

[TiQuinn]

Keeping that aspect would've been nice, but I'm happy to trade it for losing the language dependency.

I’d probably just smash the two spells together because I like that as well.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Command is indeed a strong spell in 5e, but in terms of raw combat power it's gotten a buff not a nerf in that the restrictions on not being able to cast it on undead and critters that don't speak your language has been removed. In any case if you think that Command is OPed there are plenty of ways to nerf it without utterly gutting the versatility that makes it a joy to use.

And it's exactly the versatility and the requirement of DM adjudication that I like about it so much...

As soon as Fighters can get access to something--anything--that is half as versatile and potent as command, which I will note is a first-level spell, then I will consider these complaints valid and warranted.

Until then? This is making barely-above-minimum-power magic something slightly less than "incredibly powerful and only constrained by a DM actively waging a vanguard campaign against caster dominance."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why does any spell need to be limited? It's magic after all.

If you have a set list you know what's going to happen and you don't have to guess how it's going to be interpreted. It's easier to know what the effect will be for player and DM alike.

Seems to me like a lot of people complaining that they're making this spell clearer turn around and bemoan the lack of clarity elsewhere. It's just not a big deal.

They're not making it clearer, they're making it less versatile.

 

[Oofta]

They're not making it clearer, they're making it less versatile.

For you.