D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Hussar]

Restricted spell descriptions don't cure bad players.

But people are arguing that this isn’t basic players but actually good players being creative.

 

[MarkB]

But people are arguing that this isn’t basic players but actually good players being creative.

I wasn't replying to "people". I was replying to the one person who believes that command is somehow a gateway to abusive and disruptive gameplay.

 

[Remathilis]

The target has to follow the letter and their interpretation of the command in the old version of the spell. The caster does not get to decide how the command is followed, it's just one word.

"Fly": A creature without wings would either stand their looking confused or futilely flap their arms. Falling is not flying.
"Walk": They walk along the edge or in any other direction
"Jump": Jump in place, away from or along the edge.
"Dismount": if on a horse stopping the horse is just part of dismounting. But even if it's not the worst case is that they fall prone and would typically take a d6 falling damage. Might work for someone riding a flying mount but it depends if they're buckled in.
"Dive": they just move.
"Breathe": I generally rule that you can't hold your breath to avoid poisonous gas, that's why we have con saves.
"Eat": umm ... they start pulling out a sack lunch?
"Scream": you have to see the target to cast command, why not just use a free action to point out where they are?

These, to me, sound an awful lot like the DM that said my PC had to jump off the side of a ship at sea, even though that was only one direction they could jump. If a target is intelligent, I have them do what I would have a PC do in their situation.

Looking at what the Commands listed in the spell are handled, the effects are fairly minor. Lose your action. Fall prone. Move your speed towards or away from you. Drop what you're holding. Anyone asking for an effect more powerful than that is going to be disappointed in the interpretation. A creature told to "fly" is going to waste their action flapping their arms. "Dismount" would use the rider's action to bring the mount to a stop and use half their move to dismount. Anyone who thinks Command is going to cause damage or even the possibility of death is engaging in level-1 wish spells again.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't like this change to command; in general I like it when the game errs on the side of player creativity, and to me this goes against it. As to the supposition that this might be related to make it more compatible with the VTT, I'm not sure I see the connection. I'm assuming the VTT will include condition markers, much like the ones I use on my physical terrain, but ultimately for it to work it will have to leave a lot of discretion to the DM as to what exactly is happening with regards to moving virtual miniatures about, etc. That's true even with the curated list of command options.

Is it possible instead that this is part of an attempt to better standardize rules for Adventurer's League or tournament play?

Either way, I'm not a fan.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I've had DMs that abused command. For example a DM that hated players wearing heavy armor was running a game on a ship (this was an AL equivalent game, not a sailing campaign). He had an NPC command my PC to jump and then told me that it was obvious that I should jump off the side of the ship. Instead of ... I don't know ... jump straight up, jump onto some other part of the ship, jump into his arms ... pretty much anything else. Nope, I had to jump off the side of the ship where of course I sunk like a rock.

...ok, but that's...that's directly harmful. that just straight up shouldn't have worked.

i don't think the problem there was the spell. i think the problem there was the DM was a jerk.

 

[MarkB]

Looking at what the Commands listed in the spell are handled, the effects are fairly minor. Lose your action. Fall prone. Move your speed towards or away from you. Drop what you're holding. Anyone asking for an effect more powerful than that is going to be disappointed in the interpretation. A creature told to "fly" is going to waste their action flapping their arms. "Dismount" would use the rider's action to bring the mount to a stop and use half their move to dismount. Anyone who thinks Command is going to cause damage or even the possibility of death is engaging in level-1 wish spells again.

Yep. The spell's intended effect is to lose their turn and maybe be placed in a disadvantageous position. The DM should adjudicate non-standard uses of the spell to be on a similar level.

 

[Oofta]

...ok, but that's...that's directly harmful. that just straight up shouldn't have worked.

i don't think the problem there was the spell. i think the problem there was the DM was a jerk.

Ah, but it wasn't "immediately" harmful. Also, yes they were an a-hole.

 

[Hussar]

Don’t partial casters use the same spells full casters use? Eventually you’re going to encounter the same spells you banned for full casters.

But a whole lot less of them and used a whole lot less often.

Thus a lot less stress for me.

 

[el-remmen]

A creature cannot be commanded to do anything that will directly harm itself.

That seems pretty broad and potentially a point in argument against the spell being useful in most combat situations. Groveling or surrendering or even fleeing could be “directly harmful.”

Like if someone is climbing a wall and I say “Jump” and even if they jump in place they will most likely fall is that “directly harmful?”

 

[Hussar]

I wasn't replying to "people". I was replying to the one person who believes that command is somehow a gateway to abusive and disruptive gameplay.

But everyone else is repeating the line that these players aren’t bad at all. They’re just being creative. That your priest is using the holy powers granted by the gods for a puerile poop joke is both creative and in character.

If someone has a cleric and that cleric honestly believes that the gods would be fine with poop jokes, then that’s not a player I want at my table.

Funny how it’s all “in character “ when it’s to the player’s advantage.