D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Micah Sweet]

At work. Will find later.



I think the crux of the issue is that on the DM side it was clearly designed for first and second edition DMs. But first and second edition DMs for the most part did not stick with the game or switch over at all.

5e somehow attracted audience much different from what it was designed for due to its ease of playing.

But again, you can't play at all without a DM. How are all these new players actually playing the game, if DMing is as hard as you claim?

 

[Oofta]

At work. Will find later.



I think the crux of the issue is that on the DM side it was clearly designed for first and second edition DMs. But first and second edition DMs for the most part did not stick with the game or switch over at all.

5e somehow attracted audience much different from what it was designed for due to its ease of playing.

A lot of the inspiration for the game was from the older TSR versions of the game. People learned how to DM during those editions as well, I don't see how it matters.

Extreme claims (and you're pushing a pretty extreme one) require extreme evidence. The evidence we have contradicts your claim.

 

[Belen]

At work. Will find later.



I think the crux of the issue is that on the DM side it was clearly designed for first and second edition DMs. But first and second edition DMs for the most part did not stick with the game or switch over at all.

5e somehow attracted audience much different from what it was designed for due to its ease of playing.

I started out in 2e and learned to DM in 2e. I DM'd 3e, 3.5. PF1e, then quit for a long time and 5e brought me back to D&D.

I am pretty sure that I am not alone and that a massive number of 2e DMs switched to 5e. Of course, people like me are all middle-aged or older with kids or have entered early late career so a lot of us can barely function on what little free time we have, let alone run D&D, but some of us do try.

I think 5e was designed using design philosophy from earlier editions because it worked and it was a reaction to the fact that 4e turned off so many people that they were loosing market share at a rapid rate.

5e was not designed for older edition DMs. It was designed to appeal widely to multiple styles of play which happened to be the same philosophy as older editions.

Those threads you had me look up on why people left 5e....half of them were those complaining that it was designed for newbs and they wanted crunchier systems. Those were players complaining rather than DMs.

Personally, 5e was designed for DMs and is far easier to run that 3.x or 4e.

 

[Minigiant]

A lot of the inspiration for the game was from the older TSR versions of the game. People learned how to DM during those editions as well, I don't see how it matters.

Extreme claims (and you're pushing a pretty extreme one) require extreme evidence. The evidence we have contradicts your claim.

Again

Expectations

Most 5e DMs do not like older edition play. That's why some of the 2024 changes happened and why 5e is super magical.

 

[Oofta]

Again

Expectations

Most 5e DMs do not like older edition play. That's why some of the 2024 changes happened and why 5e is super magical.

You have provided no evidence that this is anything other than your personal opinion and it contradicts the success we've seen over the past decade.

Have fun with that.

 

[Belen]

Most 5e DMs do not like older edition play. That's why some of the 2024 changes happened and why 5e is super magical.

Where are you getting this information? I find this doubtful as anyone who started with 5e has most likely never encountered older editions so they cannot make that statement.

 

[Remathilis]

Again

Expectations

Most 5e DMs do not like older edition play. That's why some of the 2024 changes happened and why 5e is super magical.

I think the issue is that there is an assumption that older DMs liked Old School play, and that newer DMs only like Modern play. Plenty of DMs who started in older editions are happy that the hand has changed to better accommodate their play style, just as newer DMs have branched out from D&D to other RPGs or heartbreakers. I find the effect is the same to the number of people who left 2e for WoD or other games in the 90s. People will always come and go.

 

[jayoungr]

Re all the comments about the DMG: I actually would guess that most 5E DMs, at least those who got on board in the early days of the edition, learned from the original Starter Set and Lost Mine of Phandelver. Which didn't hand-hold for the DM but did provide a good adventure to "learn by doing."

 

[Malmuria]

This was so much not my experience. 3e was a huge breath of fresh air where we could just play without constantly having to have rules discussions. The rules just worked. 4e was perhaps a step too far, fair enough. And, frankly, 5e was a step too far back the other way. Again, IME and all that.

What do you mean a step too far? The rules "just worked" too well?

 

[MarkB]

I think the crux of the issue is that on the DM side it was clearly designed for first and second edition DMs.

This really needs a cite, because not only does it not match with my experience, it makes no sense financially. Why would they design a game around people who would have been a small fraction of the existing players at the time of the game's release?