D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Oofta]

I learned the word because of D&D. Defenestrate is pretty popular.

Throwing some random object out the window is popular?

If you only learned it because people were using it as a command word, it's an exploit. It also likely wouldn't work when I DM because the target of the spell has to understand what the heck the word means. Even then, the target gets to decide how to follow that command.

 

[Professor Murder]

Mixed feelings on this. At one table, you get people pushing into the margins to do fun and creative things. At another table, you get people ruthlessly trying to exploit edge cases and interactions to wring every drop of power out of systems. Which one you may appreciate is going to be about your personal playstyles and what you consider fun. The double edged sword about avenues of creative problem solving in spells is the assumption that those using them are creative and not tedious. Using Command to force an enemy to "defecate" may be clever or humorous the first time. Will it be so the fifth? Your milage may vary.

 

[Oofta]

Honestly? Well, defenestrate means to throw someone or something out the window... not jump out the window. None of the Defenestrations of Prague (believe it or not it happened 3 times over 2 centuries) involved anyone jumping out a window - they were thrown.
So, word to the wise, don't try to be too clever with your commands.

Yep, even if I allowed it (and thinking about it again, I might make an intelligence check), they would be throwing a PC or an object out the window.

Besides, if it's at all an effective command that does anything more than waste a turn it wouldn't work because the command can't make someone do anything that would cause immediate harm.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So you either weren't reading with much attention or are mad I refuse to let you bild a strawman of my argument.

I don't know...an awful lot of folks here seem to be taking your remarks like @Belen does, including myself. Maybe it would help if you re-phrased what you want and try to present your opinion less defensively. Just my opinion here, and I'm certainly not immune to having my posts misinterpreted.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's a vast difference between open ended gameplay and trying to do things with spells like command that are clearly more effective than the example, and what I consider obvious intent, of the spell.

See to me, the "obvious intent" of any rules widget, spell, class feature, or otherwise, if what the general flavor description says. Only after that has been acknowledged and accepted do we look at what the mechanics say, and said mechanics are subject to change if they don't provide a result in keeping with the fiction the ability describes. If said fiction allows for many possible results, so too should the mechanical representation of that fiction.

 

[CellarHeroes]

Without having seen the actual new wording of the spell, but merely putting some dots together from the first few pages...
It looks like Command has been changed to make it easy to work in a digital environment.

 

[I'm A Banana]

There's a vast difference between open ended gameplay and trying to do things with spells like command that are clearly more effective than the example, and what I consider obvious intent, of the spell.

Your example of defenestrate (a word I had to look up and doubt many people would know) is an prime example. For those who can't be bothered to pull up dictionary.com the meaning is "to throw (a person or thing) out of a window". So you mean it to throw themselves out the window. Why? Why not a handy object or other person like the PC that is near them? You're using it as a one turn dominate person where you seem to be defining exactly how the command is carried out.

Part of the fun of the game for me is working within the limitations of the rules of the game to still be effective. I don't try to push the envelope of what a spell or power does because it's just not necessary. Nor for me whether I'm playing the caster, another PC or the DM, is it fun.

Honestly? Well, defenestrate means to throw someone or something out the window... not jump out the window. None of the Defenestrations of Prague (believe it or not it happened 3 times over 2 centuries) involved anyone jumping out a window - they were thrown.
So, word to the wise, don't try to be too clever with your commands.

See, part of the fun of that for me as a player would be seeing what would happen. That's why I'm casting the spell - I want to do something that's more interesting than just deal damage and cause an effect. I want to play in this space with the DM, where I am using the divine magic of the gods to order a mortal to do something, and the mortal is resisting that command with all their faculties.

I am casting the spell because I'm inviting the DM to riff off of my idea. I don't have a particular end goal I NEED to have happen. The dude throws someone else out a window? Throws themselves out the window? Tosses their weapon out the window? Man, I took that risk when I went off-script, I'm three decisions in (I prepared the spell, I cast the spell, I decided to do something novel with it), I want the DM to take this toy and play with it however they see fit, if I wanted to do damage and have an effect, I had the option, and I didn't want to do that. I wanted to screw around and find out.

If I'm attached to the outcome, I'm not going to choose an off-script command. If I do, I'm comfortable with an unexpected outcome - hell, it's FUN! It's why I did what I did as a player!

Like, you roll on a table because you want to be surprised by the result. If you don't want to be surprised, you don't roll on the table, you just pick something that works. Similarly, you cast command using an off-script option because you want to play within that possibility space. If you aren't interested in playing, you have other options for what to do with that spell slot that are more reliable (like a thunderwave).

And it still isn't clear to me why that is more onerous than, say, someone buying a vial of acid and melting the hinges off of a locked door instead of finding the key the DM hid somewhere in the dungeon. Yeah, maybe it's SUPER effective in solving the adventure! Or maybe not! Not Attached to Outcome! The fun is in lobbing this idea into the shared reality and seeing how it lands.

 

[Oofta]

Without having seen the actual new wording of the spell, but merely putting some dots together from the first few pages...
It looks like Command has been changed to make it easy to work in a digital environment.

I don't see that as a reason. It's more powerful because targets don't need to understand the command. The intent of the spell is now clear because you are limited to a specific set of commands with specified responses.

There's no reason to invent other reasons.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I don't see that as a reason. It's more powerful because targets don't need to understand the command. The intent of the spell is now clear because you are limited to a specific set of commands with specified responses.

There's no reason to invent other reasons.

I think that it is informed speculation. And I agree with @CellarHeroes ...

Look, Hasbro is investing a metric eff-ton (that's a real unit!) in its VTT and DDB. They would be really stupid to not try and make the rules more easy for digital given that this is the major rules revamp before the VTT comes out.

This isn't evil, it's just common sense. (I happen to like most of the changes, by the way, but I'm also a big fan of Monks, so take that with all the grains of salt you need.)

 

[Belen]

Throwing some random object out the window is popular?

If you only learned it because people were using it as a command word, it's an exploit. It also likely wouldn't work when I DM because the target of the spell has to understand what the heck the word means. Even then, the target gets to decide how to follow that command.

No. It was more than 30 years ago. People loved the word and joked about it around the table.