D&D (2024) Heroes of the Borderlands

[Parmandur]

Yeah, the first thing I thought when I saw this was "well hopefully they'll make the Caverns of Chaos actually interesting and fun"

Based on what they laid down, it seems they've expanded it into one module per pillar of play (not honestly sure if they are still talking about it that way, but still):

• The Keep for Social-focusef Adventuring
• The Wilderness for Exploration-focused Adventuring
• Caves of Chaos fir Combat-focused Adventuring

 

[Parmandur]

I’m sure it’s wonderful.
While I am a “player of a certain age” I have no attachment to the “classic” stuff.

I was just hoping that in my lifetime there would be some new classics.

Game on my friends.

That's what the Dragon Antholofy is doing.

And based on Quests from the Infinite Staircase...thus could become good as new.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I think what made KotBL so great was because it was our own lore that was created. Not official lore. Tales of fighting the owlbear, pitting one clan against the other, freeing the mad barbarian or letting him hang, getting skewered by the minotaur, learning what "bree-yark" really meant, or even taking over the keep for ourselves.

Me personally, that's what gets lost in modern adventures--how players created their own stories and tales. Not something predetermined. All the pieces were there, but how each group approached the caves was different. Heck, every time we played it, we approached it differently. That's harder to do when an adventure is more fleshed out and the NPCs have predetermined motivations and personalities. YMMV of course.

Yeah, the best stories my players have pulled from it (in my OSE Borderlands game) is the Hermit in the nearby woods and the cursed objects in the temple.

Letting them make their own stories is so much better than point A to B to C that big adventure books have.

Just drop a few bits of made up lore and see where it takes you. "Cultist in the sewers under the keep (sure why not)?" "They tied to the temple in the Caves (they are now)?" "Perhaps that priest that got away knows how to uncurse these objects (well sure now he can)?

I started them at the Keep. Gave them some rumors to start. Goblins in the caves. Cultists in the keep. Unburied ancient prison nearby. And just let them go build their own story. It's been one of the best times I've had DM in years.

 

[pukunui]

I cut my gaming teeth in the mid 90s with 2e. I think we mostly just made up our own adventures. I didn't start experiencing pre-written adventures until I got back into D&D in the late 00s with 3.5e. So I have not played a lot of the "classics" - either in their original form or in a revised form for a more recent edition.

With that in mind, I am more used to the newer style of adventures, and I really struggle to make sense of some of these older classic adventures. Like I've just been reading through The Lost City in the Infinite Staircase book, and the layout of the ziggurat and the placement of various creatures within in it just boggles my mind. How did that carrion crawler get inside that room? How can a rust monster be a wandering monster when the ziggurat is full of closed doors? Why haven't the guys in that one faction dealt with some of the creatures/hazards that are just down the hall? And so on ... It's one of those adventures where it feels like everything is in stasis, waiting for the PCs to kick in the door so they can "come alive".

I remember getting something of a similar sense with the Caves of Chaos when I read through the D&D Next Playtest version. I would much prefer it if the caves area was bigger with more space between the various groups.

(This preference for adventure locations being more spacious may also come from my upbringing - I grew up on 3/4 of acre in the suburbs surrounded by other spacious properties and with an empty horse paddock on one side. In college, I struggled to adjust to living in a dorm. Even as an adult, I struggle with having other houses in such close proximity, and the idea of living in an apartment building has zero appeal.)

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, the best stories my players have pulled from it (in my OSE Borderlands game) is the Hermit in the nearby woods and the cursed objects in the temple.

Letting them make their own stories is so much better than point A to B to C that big adventure books have.

Just drop a few bits of made up lore and see where it takes you. "Cultist in the sewers under the keep (sure why not)?" "They tied to the temple in the Caves (they are now)?" "Perhaps that priest that got away knows how to uncurse these objects (well sure now he can)?

I started them at the Keep. Gave them some rumors to start. Goblins in the caves. Cultists in the keep. Unburied ancient prison nearby. And just let them go build their own story. It's been one of the best times I've had DM in years.

That's the game I ideally want to run every time.

 

[mamba]

While I am a “player of a certain age” I have no attachment to the “classic” stuff.

For me it depends, I have not much attachment to 1e / Gygax modules, but definitely some to 2e / Hickman modules. I always wanted Hickman style adventures, even before I found them

I was just hoping that in my lifetime there would be some new classics.

To me the classics ended up being the classics not because they were so great but because we had nothing else...

It is hard to know what will be the future classics in advance, but Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, Phandelver, Curse of Strahd, and Tomb of Annihilation all might fall into that category.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yeah, putting "new" design choices aside, on a thematic basis, I'm interested to see how a party of furry avatars with no human in sight where everyone is an un-killable god at first level marries with Greyhawk.

Hint: I don't think it will.

Since when are characters gods at first level.

 

[mamba]

Me personally, that's what gets lost in modern adventures--how players created their own stories and tales. Not something predetermined. All the pieces were there, but how each group approached the caves was different. Heck, every time we played it, we approached it differently. That's harder to do when an adventure is more fleshed out and the NPCs have predetermined motivations and personalities. YMMV of course.

I agree, there needs to be enough 'wiggle room'. What I do not like about the caves is how nonsensical they are, here you have all these different enemy factions living door to door with each other, never liked the funhouse dungeons either, just not my style

I've just been reading through The Lost City in the Infinite Staircase book, and the layout of the ziggurat and the placement of various creatures within in it just boggles my mind. How did that carrion crawler get inside that room? How can a rust monster be a wandering monster when the ziggurat is full of closed doors? Why haven't the guys in that one faction dealt with some of the creatures/hazards that are just down the hall? And so on ... It's one of those adventures where it feels like everything is in stasis, waiting for the PCs to kick in the door so they can "come alive".

I remember getting something of a similar sense with the Caves of Chaos when I read through the D&D Next Playtest version. I would much prefer it if the caves area was bigger with more space between the various groups.

that is my problem with the old style too

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I agree, there needs to be enough 'wiggle room'. What I do not like about the caves is how nonsensical they are, here you have all these different enemy factions living door to door with each other, never liked the funhouse dungeons either, just not my style

Just spreading the canyon out horizontally by a factor of four or five would make a huge difference.

Better yet would be to make all these caves along a proper river canyon, rather than a box canyon where they're all trapped in there together. It'd open up all sorts of new possibilities -- river traffic! fishing! -- and not make everyone wonder how they didn't all wipe each other out ages ago. (The cultists being in charge of the tribes isn't present in the text of B2; it appears to mostly just be head canon for everyone in the years since.)

 

[Zaukrie]

Just spreading the canyon out horizontally by a factor of four or five would make a huge difference.

Better yet would be to make all these caves along a proper river canyon, rather than a box canyon where they're all trapped in there together. It'd open up all sorts of new possibilities -- river traffic! fishing! -- and not make everyone wonder how they didn't all wipe each other out ages ago. (The cultists being in charge of the tribes isn't present in the text to B2; it appears to mostly just be head canon for everyone in the years since.)

There's so many interesting terrain features they could use.....