D&D (2024) Heroes of the Borderlands

[Hriston]

I didn't see anything that suggested a Setting: likely it will be presented as being able to plug into Hreyhawk, FR, probsvly other Settinfs, and honebrew.

At around 8:20 in the D&D Direct 2024 video, the person talking says, "For the context of this box, it's in a place called the Borderlands." so the OP would seem to be correct in saying that's the setting of the adventure.

The Realm, eh? My bug suspicion suspicions that theybare bringing Venger into the Keep on the Borderlands plot...

Interesting. Personally, I've never made a connection between "the Realm" of KotB, which is implied to be something like a kingdom or a "civilized" area, and "the realm of Dungeons & Dragons" of the TV series, which seems to be more of an entire world. The two don't seem to have much in common conceptually, but it's all grist for the mill at this point.

 

[Remathilis]

Indeed. Whist the actual module was setting-agnostic, I associate it with Mystara, since that was the official setting for Basic D&D at the time I read the adventure (1982).

It has a canonical location there too. Which is why the notion that a remake tramples the history is hilarious. The KotB has two cannon locations on different worlds. The Return to KotB is listed under the Greyhawk banner but has several references to other B/X modules (one NPC is a warrior monk from The Lost City, another is a d'Amberville) which also have canonical locations on Mystara. And that's not considering the location of the Isle of Dread (which literally introduced the concept of the Known World, unless you're playing Savage Tide where it again is on Oerth, or maybe part of the Elemental Plane of Water) or the location of Blackmoor (the northern part of the Flanaess, or the Known World, or it's own planet).

In short, the official canonical location for several classic modules is still "multiple choice".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Personally, I think the keep is located in a gravel pit off the M25.

 

[Remathilis]

I’d like that, to me we have gone way overboard with races, and we play them all like humans in costumes

Because players want to be in on the fun!

Seriously, why do you think there is a demon race, an angel race, a giant race, a dragon race, a vampire race, a fairy race, a mermaid race, etc? Because players are drawn to monsters and fantasy creatures and don't want to always interact with them as antagonists. D&D doesn't let you play an actual vampire or dragon (barring special circumstances or being the DM) so PC-ified variants are the best you can ask for.

In theory, I get the appeal of a world where humans are the only familiar species and everything else is strange, alien or hostile, but I kinda also get the appeal of a world where all manner of cool options exist to let me play a character connected to giants, dragons or the planes. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[Hriston]

This would be why I associate it with Greyhawk

The Keep on the Borderlands - Greyhawk Wiki

ghwiki.greyparticle.com

The Yeomanry in Greyhawk is one of the suggested settings in Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, but the adventure itself doesn't reference Greyhawk. In fact, there's a Cyndicean NPC, so a Mystaran setting seems to have been intended although the adventure also includes Babylonian/Sumerian deities not used in Mystara. When I ran KotB a few years ago, I set it in on the border of the Yeomanry, influenced by the placement suggested in RttKotB although I put it on the east side of the Yeomanry instead of the west side suggested which would have required altering the geography described in the module, which wasn't to my liking. If I run it again, I don't think I would place it in Greyhawk at all, but at the time my goal was to run a Greyhawk campaign for which it was going to be the first adventure.

I read the novelization which was supposed to be set in Greyhawk, but I don't remember much about it that had anything to do with Greyhawk specifically.

Eta: The orginal module was written long before Greyhawk or Mystara as published settings were a thing, and the intent seems to have been for it to be a standalone adventure with its own setting.

 

[Parmandur]

At around 8:20 in the D&D Direct 2024 video, the person talking says, "For the context of this box, it's in a place called the Borderlands." so the OP would seem to be correct in saying that's the setting of the adventure.

Yeah, it appears to be a modular micro-Setting

Interesting. Personally, I've never made a connection between "the Realm" of KotB, which is implied to be something like a kingdom or a "civilized" area, and "the realm of Dungeons & Dragons" of the TV series, which seems to be more of an entire world. The two don't seem to have much in common conceptually, but it's all grist for the mill at this point.

I mainly think thwt because the only earlier preview for what came after the Core books was that theybwere working on something with Red Wizards in it, and something with Venger in it...and Venger as the BBEG for a remix of Keep on the Borderlands seems weirdly fitting.

 

[mamba]

In theory, I get the appeal of a world where humans are the only familiar species and everything else is strange, alien or hostile, but I kinda also get the appeal of a world where all manner of cool options exist to let me play a character connected to giants, dragons or the planes. Variety is the spice of life.

I get it, but it diminishes the strangeness of the world. It turns pretty much any humanoid creature in a human in funny clothes, even if they are not playable races. See the discussion about orcs ands goblins we are having here right now, that is not just happening because the Orc is now in the 2024 PHB.

Not everyone has to be hostile either, but they are could be sufficiently alien and dragonborn, that stops once dragonborn are playable

 

[Hriston]

Yeah, it appears to be a modular micro-Setting

Right, which goes along pretty well with the stated modularity of the project -- modular on both the players' and DM's end of things.

I mainly think thwt because the only earlier preview for what came after the Core books was that theybwere working on something with Red Wizards in it, and something with Venger in it...and Venger as the BBEG for a remix of Keep on the Borderlands seems weirdly fitting.

Hmm, I'm not sure I can see Venger or the Red Wizards as cultists of "Evil Chaos", and I'm not sure why that would need to be changed as the ultimate source of antagonism in the adventure. Maybe as part of a larger arc involving Venger and/or the Red Wizards' ambition to gain control over the Realm?

 

[Remathilis]

I get it, but it diminishes the strangeness of the world. It turns pretty much any humanoid creature in a human in funny clothes, even if they are not playable races. See the discussion about orcs ands goblins we are having here right now, that is not just happening because the Orc is now in the 2024 PHB.

Not everyone has to be hostile either, but they are could be sufficiently alien and dragonborn, that stops once dragonborn are playable

50 years of familiarity has drained much of the strangeness out of the bog standard MM creatures already. Orcs in D&D were more stupid henchmen than unstoppable force, it took Warcraft to really rehabilitate them from stupid pig men into something compelling.

But ultimately, any arguments against the cantina come down to the fact that regardless of genre or setting, we can only conceptualize sentience in the framework of humanity so any sentient creature is going to end up humanish the more we are exposed to it. Even something as alien as a mind flayer becomes less alien the more you try to design a culture, society and other aspects.

In the end, the "nightmare creature" is only frightening because we don't know much about it. The more we learn and understand, the less frightening it becomes. Which is why many iconic D&D monsters have become playable or spawned a playable version: the fact we define them means we understand them and that leads us to want to explore their stories. And not everyone wants to do that in the context of the DMs chair.

Plus, monsters are cool and people like to play cool things. Never underestimate the power of wanting to play the bad guy.

 

[mamba]

50 years of familiarity has drained much of the strangeness out of the bog standard MM creatures already.

yes, if you played that long, sure. Most people have played a lot less however and some might even be new to it, who knows

I would want them to feel alien for new players again, not just like humans with blue skin or whatever.

Plus, monsters are cool and people like to play cool things. Never underestimate the power of wanting to play the bad guy.

the hero is not the bad guy, even if they have tusks or horns