D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Retreater]

So heartbreaker is just a dumb expression. Got it.

"Heartbreaker" is a rocker from Led Zeppelin II. Has a great solo from Jimmy Page.
Wait. Are we talking about something else?

 

[mamba]

So heartbreaker is just a dumb expression. Got it.

neither PF1 nor 4e was one... the term was coined for the dozens of D&D clones that changed a rule here and there and thought they had made a great game due to that, only to find out that essentially no one cared

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So heartbreaker is just a dumb expression. Got it.

Bah. I always thought that it was kind of cute and clever. I've written a non-commercial TTRPG, and I never found it insulting - the game didn't break my heart, either, I never got around to trying to print or market it. Just a few hundred people ever played it, but we played it for a decade. I hear some people still play it, 20-years in.

 

[mamba]

"Heartbreaker" is a rocker from Led Zeppelin II. Has a great solo from Jimmy Page.

I thought it was a member of Tom Petty's band

 

[DinoInDisguise]

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I wrote that you are in effect calling people stupid sheep.

Do you not see that you are doing that? When you state, as you have reiterated here, that people are simply going with D&D because we don't know better than to just go with the "status quo", what exactly do you think you are implying, other than that we are stupid sheep? Do you not see that your framing is deeply insulting?

Well, it is. Which is why many, many people have responded negatively.

For your information, I am a professional with a masters degree. I have played many, many different TTRPGs in my forty+ years of serious gaming. I even have a publication credit for being the principal designer of an educational game (Up the Creek; The Salmon Survival Game). So I'm not some rube who stumbled across D&D and has never look anywhere else. I think similar goes for most folks on this forum.

I am also familiar with the DC20 system. I very much enjoy the Dimension 20 crew, and appreciate their perspective on it, and I've kept track of it's development, as I do with many TTRPGs.

So maybe, just maybe, people disagree with you for reasons other than being ignorant. Maybe we are just as smart, just as informed as you, and have still come to different conclusions. That's how opinions work.

Disparaging 5e is a popular past time on this forum. Especially among people who don't play it. Reading through just recent threads, you can find everything from the wishing of ill upon people, to the questioning of people's intelligence. From calling people sheep, to insinuating WotC is brainwashing players. All of it is based on a personal vitriol towards a system no one is forced to play.

It's truly a case study in the power of negative emotions and their ability to influence how we perceive reality. And I think it detracts from the, otherwise, thoughtful discussions found on this forum.

 

[Mistwell]

Fantasy Heartbreaker as a phrase originated, as far as I know, from The Forge. It means a combination of "one great idea buried in the game somewhere. They are the product love and determined creativity." and "given the current marketplace, they were and are doomed from an economic standpoint." This combination feels heartbreaking. Someone put a lot of love and effort into a game, they have a good idea, you want them to succeed, and yet you know the game is never really going to take off like they think it will or should. Which is heartbreaking.

 

[Clint_L]

Disparaging 5e is a popular past time on this forum. Especially among people who don't play it. Reading through just recent threads, you can find everything from the wishing of ill upon people, to the questioning of people's intelligence. From calling people sheep, to insinuating WotC is brainwashing players. All of it is based on a personal vitriol towards a system no one is forced to play.

It's truly a case study in the power of negative emotions and their ability to influence how we perceive reality. And I think it detracts from the, otherwise, thoughtful discussions found on this forum.

I agree. It's tiresome, and threads are constantly derailed by it. I've seldom played Pathfinder and don't love their system(s), but do I go on that subforum and disparage it?

D&D is the elephant in the room so it's a bit different, and honest criticism of it is more than fair game. But there's a lot of disparagement of the game and, implicitly or explicitly of its players (c.f. this thread), and that is frustrating. How many threads get derailed just so that the same people can tell us that D&D and/or WotC are terrible, for the ten thousandth time?

 

[Clint_L]

Fantasy Heartbreaker as a phrase originated, as far as I know, from The Forge. It means a combination of "one great idea buried in the game somewhere. They are the product love and determined creativity." and "given the current marketplace, they were and are doomed from an economic standpoint." This combination feels heartbreaking. Someone put a lot of love and effort into a game, they have a good idea, you want them to succeed, and yet you know the game is never really going to take off like they think it will or should. Which is heartbreaking.

Yup. And the term "heartbreaker" used in this sense did not originate with TTRPGs. It's a fairly common euphemism.

 

[Chaltab]

Then you can't just call any D&D-adjacent game a fantasy heartbreaker unless and until it fails.

I didn't? I said the term comes from a different era where failed games were common. DC20 will probably see some success, it has a lot of hype even if it's not a game that appeals to me.

 

[bedir than]

Does any game deserve to succeed?