D&D 5E Issues with Legendary Reactions vs Legendary Actions

[the Jester]

I don’t think it was unanticipated, it was just considered an acceptable consequence of the change.

But why? What does the change make better? What problem does it fix? It feels like a change for the sake of change.

 

[cbwjm]

Just confirming, we are sure those conditions still remove reactions? I know a few spells that used to remove reactions no longer do so, so juuuuuust making sure.

I think the real problem comes if you bring in some of these monsters while still otherwise using the 2014 rules.

 

[Tazawa]

Just confirming, we are sure those conditions still remove reactions? I know a few spells that used to remove reactions no longer do so, so juuuuuust making sure.

Yes except for the previously mentioned Shocking Grasp. From the 2014 PHB:

Arms of Hadar
- On a failed save, a target takes 2d6 Necrotic damage and can't take Reactions until the start of its next turn.

Confusion
- Each creature in a 10-foot-radius Sphere centered on a point you choose within range must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or that target can't take Bonus Actions or Reactions and must roll 1d10 at the start of each of its turns to determine its behavior for that turn, consulting the table below.

Shocking Grasp
- On a hit, the target takes 1d8 Lightning damage, and it can't make Opportunity Attacks until the start of its next turn.

Slow
- An affected target’s Speed is halved, it takes a -2 penalty to AC and Dexterity saving throws, and it can’t take Reactions.

Staggering Smite
- The target takes an extra 4d6 Psychic damage from the attack, and the target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or have the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.

Tasha's Mind Whip
- Not in the 2024 PHB

There are also other spells that can cause/encourage a target to take a reaction, which would remove one use of their ‘legendary’ reactions.

Dissonant Whispers
- On a failed save, it takes 3d6 Psychic damage and must immediately use its Reaction, if available, to move as far away from you as it can, using the safest route.

Dominate Beast/Monster/Person
- You can command the target to take a Reaction but must take your own Reaction to do so.

Wall of Stone
- On a success, it can use its Reaction to move up to its Speed so that it is no longer enclosed by the wall.

 

[Tazawa]

But why? What does the change make better? What problem does it fix? It feels like a change for the sake of change.

I’ve got to agree with the Jester. The change doesn’t solve any problems and has unintended consequences.

 

[TheSword]

So the list of conditions and spells that incapacitate or prevent reactions in most cases are restricting all actions so it wouldn’t make a difference whether it was a legendary action or legendary reaction.

I get it. Every creature in the game gets one action and it’s used on your own turn. Things you can do on other peoples turns have always been reactions. I do think it’s more straightforward.

Trying to reduce the extra actions a creature has by using these spells could be a really interesting tactical approach.

 

[Charlaquin]

But why? What does the change make better? What problem does it fix? It feels like a change for the sake of change.

It streamlines the action economy. Everything is an action, bonus action, or reaction; no special category of action that only certain creatures can take that follow special rules no other actions use.

I’ve got to agree with the Jester. The change doesn’t solve any problems and has unintended consequences.

I'm not trying to argue for whether the change was a good one or not. Just that its consequences were known and considered acceptable.

 

[Shardstone]

Is the cataclysmic action exactly like a legendary action or is it something that can't be stopped? It sounds like it shouldn't be able to be stopped.

Cannot be stopped, and is typically as powerful as a three-action legendary action. its a riff on Colvilles villain actions.

 

[mellored]

IMO. They should of gone with multiple turns. Like.

Take an additional turn at initiative -5 and initiative -10.
And at the end of each turn they can roll a save against any ongoing effects.

Then you can have players stun them, and they loose 1/3 of the round. Instead of the all or nothing.

 

[billd91]

It streamlines the action economy. Everything is an action, bonus action, or reaction; no special category of action that only certain creatures can take that follow special rules no other actions use.

I'm not sure it really does streamline the action economy in any way that isn't just cosmetic. While it does pack all of the legendary action ability into a reaction, now those legendary actions that could be selected as the DM sees fit come with specific conditions to invoke them which could increase the complexity of the monster involved. The green dragon's reactions in the Monster preview may be fair evocative, but only one of them fits the mold of the older legendary actions since its trigger is another character's turn ends. The other two have specific triggers. One of them, taking damage, may be frequent and straightforward, but are all monster reactions reliably designed like that?

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm not sure it really does streamline the action economy in any way that isn't just cosmetic. While it does pack all of the legendary action ability into a reaction, now those legendary actions that could be selected as the DM sees fit come with specific conditions to invoke them which could increase the complexity of the monster involved. The green dragon's reactions in the Monster preview may be fair evocative, but only one of them fits the mold of the older legendary actions since its trigger is another character's turn ends. The other two have specific triggers. One of them, taking damage, may be frequent and straightforward, but are all monster reactions reliably designed like that?

That’s probably also intentional, to make legendary monsters easier to run. The specificity of the triggers will encourage DMs to use those reactions whenever the opportunity to do so arises, rather than all of the options being available at all times. The cynical observer might also point out that this will probably make legendary actions easier for some sort of automated DMing software to execute