D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[mamba]

Those problems are still in D&D 2024 though? Like, for every minor improvement that got made, they broke something else. Even if it were to be said that 2024 is overall a minor improvement over 2014, it's just not worth it. Lipstick on a pig.

and DC20 is clown paint on the same pig, not sure that is an improvement

 

[Zuranthium]

please explain how there is a difference in mechanics of each class? In detail

Wizards create runes, Sorcerers overload, Warlocks use blood, Druids cause pockets of nature to spring up (in a completely flexible pattern/terrain of their choice - I love this), Clerics have to pray, Bards have to perform. Very different processes to use their magic, and different effects.

Maybe if DC20 went full 3.5e psionic and casted "spells" without any component and only thing you need to worry is how the spell manifest in the world and how obvious those effect are, maybe there would be something.

That is what the Psion is doing in DC20.

and DC20 is clown paint on the same pig

No.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Wizards create runes, Sorcerers overload, Warlocks use blood, Druids cause pockets of nature to spring up (in a completely flexible pattern/terrain of their choice - I love this), Clerics have to pray, Bards have to perform. Very different processes to use their magic, and different effects

This is fluff, not mechanics.

No.

Yes. It even has the same class names!

If D&D 2024 doesn’t deserve to succeed, bootleg knock-offs certainly don’t!

NB: I’m not including Level Up in that category - that sets out to add to, not rip off. Much better choice if you want your D&D more crunchy.

 

[Zuranthium]

Wrong, it's mechanics. WTF is even your definition of a mechanic if needing to plan and utilize 8 different squares on the battlefield for your magic to work is not one.

It even has the same class names!

Now you're going full fallacy. Using the same class names has nothing to do with them being well designed or not.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Using the same class names has nothing to do with them being well designed or not.

It shows a woeful lack of imagination!

 

[Horwath]

Wizards create runes, Sorcerers overload, Warlocks use blood, Druids cause pockets of nature to spring up (in a completely flexible pattern/terrain of their choice - I love this), Clerics have to pray, Bards have to perform. Very different processes to use their magic, and different effects.

those things are flavor not mechanics, outside of flavor it's irrelevant how you got magic, you got it.
question is, if bard and cleric are casting same spell, what is mechanical difference between two, not counting extras from subclasses/feats/talent?

That is what the Psion is doing in DC20.

it's something...

 

[Zuranthium]

those things are flavor not mechanics, outside of flavor it's irrelevant how you got magic, you got it.

No, it's mechanics. A warlock needing to sacrifice health to cast their spell, compared to Druid needing to stay within their domain of growth, is different gameplay aside from just flavor. It requires different actions and resources from the player.

question is, if bard and cleric are casting same spell, what is mechanical difference between two

When they cast the "same spell" those spells have different properties, and they need to do something different to cast the spell, that can be impacted by what's happening in the game.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Wizards create runes, Sorcerers overload, Warlocks use blood, Druids cause pockets of nature to spring up (in a completely flexible pattern/terrain of their choice - I love this), Clerics have to pray, Bards have to perform. Very different processes to use their magic, and different effects.

...okay, but could you actually...explain those mechanics, instead of just listing very short (mostly one word) summaries of them that make them sound like flavour? because "sorcerers overload" literally means nothing to me.

 

[Zuranthium]

It's been explained in multiple posts now. Each casting class has to perform a different action and draw on a different resource, and they modulate their spells in different ways from each other. So this creates a wide variety of different limitations and possible bonuses.

A warlock has taken a lot of damage? They'll no longer be able to sacrifice health to facilitate their casting (and any sacrifice of health creates an inherent risk of being closer to getting killed). A druid gets pushed out of their grove? Now they are disadvantaged or might not be able to cast a certain spell at all.

A wizard needs to create a rune to cast their spell? They are prone while doing so and when the spell casts it comes with a flexible range/aoe/damage bonus of their choice. Whereas a Sorcerer overloads their magic, they aren't prone while preparing to cast, but they become exhausted while trying to do it too long, and their bonus is having spells that are less resistible.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's been explained in multiple posts now. Each casting class has to perform a different action and draw on a different resource, and they modulate their spells in different ways from each other. So this creates a wide variety of different limitations and possible bonuses.

A warlock has taken a lot of damage? They'll no longer be able to sacrifice health to facilitate their casting (and any sacrifice of health creates an inherent risk of being closer to getting killed). A druid gets pushed out of their grove? Now they are disadvantaged or might not be able to cast a certain spell at all.

A wizard needs to create a rune to cast their spell? They are prone while doing so and when the spell casts it comes with a flexible range/aoe/damage bonus of their choice. Whereas a Sorcerer overloads their magic, they aren't prone while preparing to cast, but they become exhausted while trying to do it too long, and their bonus is having spells that are less resistible.

So, wouldn’t it be a more elegant design to have single spell casting class that selected its gimmick weakness at level 1?

The main advantage of ditching D&D is you are not beholden to tradition, so you can streamline things and cut accreted grot.