D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Micah Sweet]

Smaller in terms of games not d20 based. The market for games not built off of WotC's SRD (formerly or currently) is far smaller than it was when GURPs, Palladium, Storyteller and MERPs shared shelf space with D&D. My FLGS carries D&D, Pathfinder, and a few smaller tiles (Edge of the Empire, Marvel Multiverses, etc) but while RPGs are bigger, finding games that don't share D&D's DNA are vanishingly small.

As I said, WotC dominance as a single publisher is more worrying to me than a lot of different games with similar mechanics (as much as like diverse systems).

 

[Micah Sweet]

True. If you visit any Barnes and Noble bookstore these days, you are more likely to see 5e D&D books and PF2 Remaster in the store's small RPG section.

Would definitely like to see that diversity addressed as well. Another thing that was better in the TSR days.

 

[Oofta]

When it comes to "there have been negative reviews", two things. One is that we all know that negativity sells so negative reviews are no surprise. If someone has confirmation bias (most people do), of course those negative reviews will stand out. Even neutral reviews will have some things to say.

For me? I think the rules were due for an update. So we're trying it. Worst case we'll house rule stuff we don't like as we always have.

 

[dbolack]

Depends on what you mean by diverse. I remember a lot of different games being played, discussed and written about in the forums and periodicals of the time. D&D was still the big dog, but the other dogs weren't nearly so much smaller.

We remember a different 80s, I guess.

 

[MockingBird]

If this thread did anything, it definitely steered me away from DC20

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Depends on what you mean by diverse. I remember a lot of different games being played, discussed and written about in the forums and periodicals of the time. D&D was still the big dog, but the other dogs weren't nearly so much smaller.

I think that you might have a perception filter on. Now, I didn't sell TTRPGs in the 80's (but I played them), but I did in the early 90's, and to this day, and I would say that there are far, FAR more viable alternatives to D&D today than there ever has been before. For one thing, I can't think of very many TTRPGs that were available then that aren't now. You can get new Twilight 2000 - heck, even Paladium TMNT has a revival Kickstarter. GURPS and RIFTS haven't had new editions in decades, but they're still around. As is Call of Cthulhu, Vampire, And tons more.

Then new ones? Where do I start? Coyote & Crow, Shadowdark, Blades in the Dark, Shadow of the Weird Wizard, 13th Age, and on and on.... Daggerheart, Draw Steel, etc etc.

AND all the D&D knockoffs that I didn't list, like Pathfinder, Tales of the Valiant, Level Up, etc etc etc.

It's really a good time to be a TTRPG fan!

 

[MerricB]

The "Dominance of 5E" is very apparent on... 5E sites.

A bit more seriously, I think a major part of what you see is not just that 5E is dominant, but that the OTHER games are splintered. The last version of the Orr Report I can find (from Q3 2021), gave 53.7% of Roll20 play to D&D 5E, 11.9% to Call of Cthulhu, 3.2% to Pathfinder, 1.4% to PF2, and everything else below 1%.

And for any commercial news site, this causes problems. If those percentages are backed up, then if you write an article about D&D 5E, you might get 5,000 views, while for one of the <1% you get 100 views... if you're lucky. And when you depend on clicks for ad revenue so your site can continue, that's a problem.

When I think of the big games of the 1980s, I think of RuneQuest, Traveller, Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu, James Bond 007, Rolemaster, Palladium, Marvel Super Heroes, GURPS, and late in the decade, Star Wars d6.

And I'm not even sure that all of those deserve to be on the list. (I probably have missed one).

Just looking at a list on Wikipedia for RPGs released in 1983 (I assume, partial), most of them are utterly unknown to me.

• Droids
• Element Masters
• Espionage!
• James Bond 007
• Lands of Adventure
• Lords of Creation
• Mach: The First Colony
• Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes
• Other Suns
• Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game
• Powers and Perils
• Privateers and Gentlemen
• Stalking the Night Fantastic
• Star Quest
• Super Squadron
• Superworld
• Timeship
• To Challenge Tomorrow
• The Valley of the Pharaohs
• Victorian Adventure
• Warhammer The Mass Combat Fantasy Role-Playing Game
• Witch Hunt

Yeah, most of the games there didn't get any coverage at all, as well.

These days, because of who I follow on social media, I get a lot of news about Chaosium, D&D, and some PF2 and not much else.

 

[Minigiant]

Would definitely like to see that diversity addressed as well. Another thing that was better in the TSR days.

Them days aint coming back nor was it as rosy as you remember.

Most of those lesser known RPGs from the late 90s died.

And soon the Kickstarter bubble will hit TTRPGs and only known entities will be able to build up new games from scratch without corporate backing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Them days aint coming back nor was it as rosy as you remember.

Most of those lesser known RPGs from the late 90s died.

And soon the Kickstarter bubble will hit TTRPGs and only known entities will be able to build up new games from scratch without corporate backing.

That things didn't necessarily last doesn't make the good times not good.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

That things didn't necessarily last doesn't make the good times not good.

Sure, but just because you're not interested in the tons and tons of non-D&D games on the market RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean that they don't exist, or that there aren't more of them than there used to be.