WotC Greg Tito On Leaving WotC: 'It feels good to do something that doesn't just line the pockets of *****'

We reported earlier that WotC's communications director Greg Tito had left his 9-year stint managing the Dungeons & Dragons brand for a political appointment as Deputy Director of External Affairs for the Washington secretary of state's office.

Greg Tito Leaves Wizards of the Coast

Greg Tito, formerly the communications manager in charge of overseeing messaging for the Dungeons & Dragons brand, is departing Wizards of the Coast for a career in the public sector. Tito announced that he would be joining the Washington secretary of state's office starting this week, ending an...

www.enworld.org

In a surprising turn of events, Tito criticized his former employers, saying "It feels good to do something that doesn't just line the pockets of a**holes." He later went on to clarify "Sorry. I meant "shareholders".

Tito is now Deputy Director of External Affairs for the Washington Secretary of State office in Olympia, WA.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I am so sorry I brought up the Pinkerton issue- I was just using it as an example of how people don't bother seeing what happened after the initial reports.

Anyway, I think that the issues are a lot more complicated on that than people want to acknowledge, but trying to get a nuanced conversation is impossible. So again, apologies for bringing it up, and I hope we don't have to re-litigate it given we don't seem to have anything new.

There's no need to apologise. If a topic is of interest, folks are going to talk about it. Healthy and natural. I agree though, that all opinions and facets of the argument have been laid out and scraped bare. No new ground to tread here. Not trying to quash discussion, but I don't think anyone's mind is going to get changed at this point.

 

[Oofta]

The best breakdown that I saw that was published after the initial rush of articles was this:

Post-Crisis: Private Industry, Product Protection, Pinkerton and Wizards of the Coast

A detailed and factual summary of the events and allegations surrounding Wizards of the Coast's re-acquisition of leaked product.

www.hipstersofthecoast.com

While this seems to be more balanced and better researched than the article I linked to, nothing really changed.

It seems to me that Dan is putting a bit of dramatic spin on the incident. The Pinkertons, who he "knows by reputation" (presumably based on actions a hundred years ago) were "aggressive". They "harassed his elderly neighbors". How? By asking if they had the correct address because no one was there for a scheduled appointment, which supports WotC's claim that they had tried to contact him many times. Then other "reporting" has taken this and exaggerated it. For example one thing I've heard is that the Pinkertons tried to force their way in and put their foot in the door to stop it from being closed. What Dan actually says is "They did not actually force their way in, I put my foot down and demanded they show some respect in my house and they did." He was not accused of stealing, whether or not the Pinkertons referred to the materials as stolen can't be verified.

Thing is that Dan had a vested interest in making this into a bigger deal than it was without actual crossing the line into illegal defamation. It's given him a lot of attention and, as stated in the Polygon article that he had doubled his number of subscribers.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

While this seems to be more balanced and better researched than the article I linked to, nothing really changed.

It seems to me that Dan is putting a bit of dramatic spin on the incident. The Pinkertons, who he "knows by reputation" (presumably based on actions a hundred years ago) were "aggressive". They "harassed his elderly neighbors". How? By asking if they had the correct address because no one was there for a scheduled appointment, which supports WotC's claim that they had tried to contact him many times. Then other "reporting" has taken this and exaggerated it. For example one thing I've heard is that the Pinkertons tried to force their way in and put their foot in the door to stop it from being closed. What Dan actually says is "They did not actually force their way in, I put my foot down and demanded they show some respect in my house and they did." He was not accused of stealing, whether or not the Pinkertons referred to the materials as stolen can't be verified.

Thing is that Dan had a vested interest in making this into a bigger deal than it was without actual crossing the line into illegal defamation. It's given him a lot of attention and, as stated in the Polygon article that he had doubled his number of subscribers.

Look... to me, what happened is pretty clearly what you laid out. The facts, common sense, human nature... all of these back up what you're saying. But speaking of human nature... folks need to have their world view validated. It's scary when that world view is threatened. So people will stand behind things which seem nonsensical to others because it makes them feel safe and that their fears are noticed and acknowledged. All human beings, you and me included, are guilty of this to some degree.

Until we get to a point where human beings can look at their lives and the world around them objectively, as in not clouding the lens with their own personal hurts and resulting biases, we're going to have these arguments.

I'm pretty tired of talking about the Pinkertons. But maybe you're right... maybe it is worth rehashing this, despite what I said earlier. I'm not sure what the answer is. Have at it though...

 

[Oofta]

Look... to me, what happened is pretty clearly what you laid out. The facts, common sense, human nature... all of these back up what you're saying. But speaking of human nature... folks need to have their world view validated. It's scary when that world view is threatened. So people will stand behind things which seem nonsensical to others because it makes them feel safe and that their fears are noticed and acknowledged. All human beings, you and me included, are guilty of this to some degree.

Until we get to a point where human beings can look at their lives and the world around them objectively, as in not clouding the lens with their own personal hurts and resulting biases, we're going to have these arguments.

I'm pretty tired of talking about the Pinkertons. But maybe you're right... maybe it is worth rehashing this, despite what I said earlier. I'm not sure what the answer is. Have at it though...

I don't think it's worth rehashing, I just responded with a clarification from a well written but longish article because I had time to read through it.

It just seems like every other thread sooner or later devolves into Think of the OGL!!! Pinkertons!!! The proposed OGL change was never implemented based on feedback. Based on the actual facts of what we know the Pinkertons were just hired to try to figure out what happened; the laws concerning what they can and cannot do are pretty strict and it sounds like they did not violate the law.

Then we get this thread. Tito left WotC, and we don't really know the whole story other than that he's not fond of what he calls greedy shareholders. The problem is that if I knew Tito and he mentioned this when we got together we could start a conversation. I could get more details on what he really meant, why he had this attitude. Maybe he just doesn't like the way corporations work. Maybe he finally had a chance to get his dream job and feels that the message was a political statement that will resonate with some supporters. Maybe he felt that some decisions had been made to please the stockholders in a way that he disagreed with. We just don't know.

So we these issues get bounced around in the internet echo chamber and instead of sticking to facts, or I don't know, discussing the game we get OGL!!! PINKERTONS!!! and now Stockholders!!!

 

[Staffan]

It wasn't WotC's property anymore, they had no right to do anything other than ask nicely to buy it back. I think people are going to keep banging on this issue for as long as apologists keep making excuses for WotC.

That’s certainly a take.

My understanding is that the buyer in question had bought the box from a store, not directly from Wizards. As such, that box was his, no questions asked. The fact that Wizards would have preferred the seller not to sell it before a certain date is a matter between Wizards and the seller, and not the buyer's problem.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

My understanding is that the buyer in question had bought the box from a store, not directly from Wizards. As such, that box was his, no questions asked. The fact that Wizards would have preferred the seller not to sell it before a certain date is a matter between Wizards and the seller, and not the buyer's problem.

Sure. But Wizards would still have the right to request the return of their product, regardless of how many hands it had passed through?

It's a similar argument to: my car is stolen. The thief sells the car to an unsuspecting dupe. I request the car back from the dupe. What's the outcome?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Thing is that Dan had a vested interest in making this into a bigger deal than it was without actual crossing the line into illegal defamation. It's given him a lot of attention and, as stated in the Polygon article that he had doubled his number of subscribers.

Ugh, I mentioned I am sorry for bringing this up. That said, I do want to briefly address this.

I do think that the breathless (and often inaccurate) reporting afterwards was a problem, compounded by an echo chamber that took the original (bad) reporting and made it worse. To the point where people ended up screaming about jack-booted Pinkerton thugs busting in some guy's house and grabbing his stuff at gunpoint. That's, unfortunately, is the nature of the internet today.

However, I don't think it's fair to chalk this up to some agenda on the part of the person (Dan) in this story. Perceptions matter, and what one person is thinking and feeling can be very different from another person. From an objective POV, you might say, "Yes, the company tried multiple ways to contact him- from phone calls to trying to get his attention on his youtube comments. Only after everything failed, did they send people to try and talk to him directly and get the return of the cards, along with the guarantee that he would get a free set of cards when they came out."

But that's because we also know these facts. If he wasn't aware of those attempts at contact, it might have felt differently. When people show up at your house, and say you have "stolen goods," it can feel intimidating. In addition, most PI firms (like the Pinkertons) hire from ex-LEO and armed forces, so even if they weren't wearing official police uniforms, it probably felt like an LEO situation.

While anything is possible, it's also easy to imagine that both parties (WoTC and Dan) did everything in good faith. Again, Dan posted about the initial event. The followup post was basically, "Don't believe all the stuff you've been hearing about." And then he hasn't tried to capitalize (AFAIK) on this, other than naming the "official" reveal video with "No Pinkertons" which, you know, fair!

We all get so invested in narratives, and making people heroes and villains, that we sometimes refuse to see that things are not that simple- usually.

TLDR- I don't see any thing that makes me think that Dan was doing anything particularly bad, but relaying it as it happened to him. At most, he might have played up or embellished a few details because we do that when recalling events to tell a story, but who knows, and that's certainly not blameworthy.

@Ulorian - Agent of Chaos Unfortunately, I was part of the discourse at the time, and tried to explain the legal issues to people. Short version- they don't care. If their mind is made up already, they will convince themselves that whatever the actual legal issues are or might be, they are right, and therefore the law must follow.


See also-

Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be

ESCONDIDO, CA—Spurred by an administration he believes to be guilty of numerous transgressions, self-described American patriot Kyle Mortensen, 47, is a vehement defender of ideas he seems to think are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and principles that brave men have fought and died for...

theonion.com

 

[Oofta]

Ugh, I mentioned I am sorry for bringing this up. That said, I do want to briefly address this.

I do think that the breathless (and often inaccurate) reporting afterwards was a problem, compounded by an echo chamber that took the original (bad) reporting and made it worse. To the point where people ended up screaming about jack-booted Pinkerton thugs busting in some guy's house and grabbing his stuff at gunpoint. That's, unfortunately, is the nature of the internet today.

However, I don't think it's fair to chalk this up to some agenda on the part of the person (Dan) in this story. Perceptions matter, and what one person is thinking and feeling can be very different from another person. From an objective POV, you might say, "Yes, the company tried multiple ways to contact him- from phone calls to trying to get his attention on his youtube comments. Only after everything failed, did they send people to try and talk to him directly and get the return of the cards, along with the guarantee that he would get a free set of cards when they came out."

But that's because we also know these facts. If he wasn't aware of those attempts at contact, it might have felt differently. When people show up at your house, and say you have "stolen goods," it can feel intimidating. In addition, most PI firms (like the Pinkertons) hire from ex-LEO and armed forces, so even if they weren't wearing official police uniforms, it probably felt like an LEO situation.

While anything is possible, it's also easy to imagine that both parties (WoTC and Dan) did everything in good faith. Again, Dan posted about the initial event. The followup post was basically, "Don't believe all the stuff you've been hearing about." And then he hasn't tried to capitalize (AFAIK) on this, other than naming the "official" reveal video with "No Pinkertons" which, you know, fair!

We all get so invested in narratives, and making people heroes and villains, that we sometimes refuse to see that things are not that simple- usually.

TLDR- I don't see any thing that makes me think that Dan was doing anything particularly bad, but relaying it as it happened to him. At most, he might have played up or embellished a few details because we do that when recalling events to tell a story, but who knows, and that's certainly not blameworthy.

@Ulorian - Agent of Chaos Unfortunately, I was part of the discourse at the time, and tried to explain the legal issues to people. Short version- they don't care. If their mind is made up already, they will convince themselves that whatever the actual legal issues are or might be, they are right, and therefore the law must follow.


See also-

Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be

ESCONDIDO, CA—Spurred by an administration he believes to be guilty of numerous transgressions, self-described American patriot Kyle Mortensen, 47, is a vehement defender of ideas he seems to think are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and principles that brave men have fought and died for...

theonion.com

To be clear I have no idea what Dan was thinking when he made his video posts any more than what Tito was thinking when he posted his message.

And ... that's all that really matters. I had typed up a bit more but it's really just reiterating that to me this is another mountain being made out of a molehill for the reasons I explained above.

 

[Guest 7031328]

I'm just going to very quickly remind people that people can have access to the exact same information that they themselves have seen, and come to a different conclusion due to different life experiences and how much weight they personally give to certain values and actions. It does not mean one's own view is the only informed view in the discussion, and any other view is ignorant.

That seems to be slightly cropping up again, especially in regard to the exact same subject.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I'm just going to very quickly remind people that people can have access to the exact same information that they themselves have seen, and come to a different conclusion due to different life experiences and how much weight they personally give to certain values and actions. It does not mean one's own view is the only informed view in the discussion, and any other view is ignorant.

That seems to be slightly cropping up again, especially in regard to the exact same subject.

Right. I made the same point here. There comes a point though when a different conclusion is reached based on different life experiences, agreed. And that's expected and perfectly valid! The world is made up of shades of gray, as well as all the colours of the rainbow. All good!

The problem comes, though, when those conclusions ignore facts in favour of opinions coloured by said life experiences. Now you have a conclusion that is tainted, and that's objectively wrong. It behooves all of us to examine our opinions constantly. I'm doing that right now; there is a non-zero chance that you could sway me.