D&D (2024) Buffing Int, Wis, and Cha (Mostly Int and Cha)

[Quickleaf]

I miss Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma having functions outside of their skills and saves (and magic for casters). In 3E, Int gave extra skill points and languages. This kept it from being dumped to the floor, or at least made you feel it if your character idea came with an 8 Int; I know I only considered it for Barbarians, because they got 4 skill points per level so I felt okay losing one.

Wisdom is always painful to dump because Perception is useful for everyone and Wisdom saves are important.

Charisma is always easy to dump because it just has its skills and rare Charisma saves.

So, what could be added to Intelligence and Charisma to make them feel less easy to dump and more beneficial to boost?

What if Intelligence offered extra languages or tool proficiencies? Current characters get 2 languages in 2024. Instead it could be Common +1 language, with additional languages or tools per Int mod. Int could also decrease the time needed to learn new languages or tools (but I haven't seen that rule in the 2024 phb).

Wisdom is probably fine. Perception and Wisdom saves are important for everyone. Passive Perception is like a feature.

Charisma is tougher. In older editions, Charisma had a reaction bonus, or it was used for determining NPC reactions upon meeting them. Charisma could be for Hero Points or Inspiration (charismatic characters in fiction are often lucky or confident). Charisma could be for NPC contacts, showing that you make friends where you go. It could also be for a Reputation/Fame/Infamy feature.

What do you think?

You run into the problem of Ability-Score-as-Class.

For example, say INT also gives bonus skills/languages/tools, then you have your Wizards and Artifcers becoming skill monkeys automatically.

Or if you say CHA also gives you a number of Contacts, then you have Bards, Warlocks, and Sorcerers automatically being well connected.

And for some character concepts, that is totally OK... but if you want to play a bookish Wizard, default 5e will have you run out of lore skills to pick.... or if you want to play a Sorcerer who just left the family farm after their magic went wild and doesn't know much of the world...

So yes you can implement those changes (I did a similar house rule or INT in my game), but the question is can you live with the outcomes?

 

[Mistwell]

Such a rogue will probably have defensive problems and will miss out on feats like sharpshooter (or give up a damage scaling asi for it in the leveling process).

For damage it’s good though.

The rogue in question was shifted to using true strike expressing so they could focus on ranged attacks and not have to worry about AC as much. And since you pick up true strike at first level, I don't see an issue with sharpshooter?

 

[FrogReaver]

The rogue in question was shifted to using true strike expressing so they could focus on ranged attacks and not have to worry about AC as much.

unless you are doing extreme kiting and really long range, enemies will close in quickly. There’s also ranged attacks. Meaning AC still matters.

And since you pick up true strike at first level, I don't see an issue with sharpshooter?

sharpshooter gives +1 dex. For a dex rogue at level 4 that +1 dex translates into +4 attack mod from +3. For a int rogue, you won’t start with 17 dex and so it won’t do that. Maybe by level 12 it’s clearly better (when you can have max int and sharpshooter regardless and true strike adds 2d6) but till then it’s probably a wash for offense and the dex rogue is going to have a couple more ac even when the true strike rogue starts pulling ahead in offense.

 

[CreamCloud0]

And usually you only need one person to handle that entire pillar, while the rest of the party are mute.

my solution to this would be to make using languages and backgrounds actually relevant to how people react to you, your sorcerer doesn't share a non-Common language with the high preist you need to talk to and can't apply their bonuses? well your +1 CHA ranger with the situational extra +2 from having the acolyte background is your best choice right now.
oh and actually using the social interaction temperament rules.

INT can just give an additional skill, expertise or language per +1 mod, and combined with the above people should hopefully want more languages too.

 

[Krachek]

I see players often dump str or dex.
Even dex can be dump if you plan to wear heavy armor.
So there is two stat that are not dump to 8 : Wis and Con
Can we nerf them instead?

 

[Xeviat]

Treantmonk just added True Strike as a "critical" spell for a ranged rogue, and shifted their main stat to Intelligence with that change. Not sure how I feel about that, as a Dex rogue seems very iconic to me. But, it does make for an interesting rogue focused on Int.

I just saw this. I'm currently thinking of a way to adjust that, so weapon Cantrips scale properly with attacks.

 

[Xeviat]

adding an extra skill or 3 tools, languages or weapons per intelligence bonus seems like a good idea, but again, then you will have; why is wizard and artificer getting more skills than anyone else as they are now double dipping with Int increase.
partially goes to EK and AT.

IMHO, beast way is to balance out 6 saves that ALL have more or less similar power of effects to defend from and similar number of them.

My old thought for this is to have spellcasting have "skill taxes" if I were to tie skills to Int. Sure, wizards get extra skills, but they need to spend them on Arcana and Concentration to be useful at spellcasting. Not sure if I actually want that, though. (Also thought once about how some skills are way better than others, so clearly splitting them back into Spot/Listen is the right idea... Not doing that).

 

[Xeviat]

I see players often dump str or dex.
Even dex can be dump if you plan to wear heavy armor.
So there is two stat that are not dump to 8 : Wis and Con
Can we nerf them instead?

I feel like Str and Dex come with their own penalties for dumping them. Sure, heavy armor characters can have high AC with a low Dex, but they still feel that bad initiative and bad Dex saves (I felt this constantly with my dwarf life cleric). Low Str is felt in my games because I used the variant encumbrance (and BG3 made me hate having an 8 Str because of jump distances).

I do want to stealth Nerf Con, though. I've talked about it in other threads. I'm considering switching to max HP per HD and removing Con mod to HP per level, and adding Con score HP at level 1. This handles level 1 survivability issues, boosts warrior HP, and makes Con feel less important (it would still boosts HD healing, just not max HP).

 

[Mistwell]

unless you are doing extreme kiting and really long range, enemies will close in quickly. There’s also ranged attacks. Meaning AC still matters.

sharpshooter gives +1 dex. For a dex rogue at level 4 that +1 dex translates into +4 attack mod from +3. For a int rogue, you won’t start with 17 dex and so it won’t do that. Maybe by level 12 it’s clearly better (when you can have max int and sharpshooter regardless and true strike adds 2d6) but till then it’s probably a wash for offense and the dex rogue is going to have a couple more ac even when the true strike rogue starts pulling ahead in offense.

They pulled ahead at level 5. Sharpshooter...isn't as good as it used to be.

 

[Xeviat]

I really like this. Then we fuse Con with Str, and boom, much easier to silo things (and saves!).

Or split Dex into Agility and Dexterity, and split Wisdom into Wisdom and Perception. This was something I always wanted to do back in 3E.