D&D (2024) Buffing Int, Wis, and Cha (Mostly Int and Cha)

[Minigiant]

Charisma affecting the number of magic items attuned. It could be something like 3 or charisma modifier, whichever one is higher.

That's what I do


Charisma gives you bonus magic items attuned.
Intelligence gives you bonus languages known

Penalties either cause you to have poor accents in languages or be more susceptible to cursed items.

 

[Xeviat]

What I still like from the calculation is that contrary to the initial impression by treantmonk and colby, the rogue seems to be doing absokutely fine with little effort and few basic assumptions.

So probably at wotc some is indeed doing the math.

I feel like Rogues are often underestimated because people don't see just how much TWFing and advantage boost sneak attack hit chance. A level 20 rogue has one attack for 1d6+5 and one for 1d6 and 10d6 sneak attack. 12d6+5 is 47, which looks like less than the fighter's (2d6*+5)x4, or 48, plus action surges, but the rogue has almost a 90% chance of landing that 10d6.

 

[FrogReaver]

What I still like from the calculation is that contrary to the initial impression by treantmonk and colby, the rogue seems to be doing absokutely fine with little effort and few basic assumptions.

So probably at wotc some is indeed doing the math.

I’ve not looked at high levels as closely but rogue and monk damage seems pretty low at level 5.

 

[FrogReaver]

I feel like Rogues are often underestimated because people don't see just how much TWFing and advantage boost sneak attack hit chance. A level 20 rogue has one attack for 1d6+5 and one for 1d6 and 10d6 sneak attack. 12d6+5 is 47, which looks like less than the fighter's (2d6*+5)x4, or 48, plus action surges, but the rogue has almost a 90% chance of landing that 10d6.

IMO. Fighter is going to take great weapon master for +24 damage at level 20. He will do 5 damage on misses. He will give himself advantage on the next attack when he misses as well. Add in action surge and rogue is not going to hold a candle even with 100% sneak attack.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

What I still like from the calculation is that contrary to the initial impression by treantmonk and colby, the rogue seems to be doing absokutely fine

I wouldn't go that far, because it's the same Rogue as in 2014, except Nick/Vex makes them land their sneak attack more reliably (and Thief can get absolutely busted if they have access to certain magic items).

So it'll still fall behind in damage (even more if you use Cunning Strikes), unless you build around getting Sneak Attacks off-turn (which is often more of a group effort). And (outside of Thief potentially) they still have no resources to nova with...

(and outside of combat, Fighters can beat them at any skill, and Barbarians at their selection of skills)

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

which looks like less than the fighter's (2d6*+5)x4

Each of those hits multiplies any feat/magic item plus/temporary buff/etc the Fighter has going on.

Rogue's only way of boosting sneak attack is by getting more attacks in off-turn, which is a step harder to do than Fighter just existing.

EDIT: okay, Piercer technically exists

 

[Xeviat]

I’ve not looked at high levels as closely but rogue and monk damage seems pretty low at level 5.

A damage Fighter is (2d6*+4)x2, or 24, or 16 with a 65% hit chance, and can double thet once per short rest. A TWFing rogue is 5d6+5, or 23, or 16.3 with 65% miss chance. They lack the fighter's action surge, though.

 

[Xeviat]

Each of those hits multiplies any feat/magic item plus/temporary buff/etc the Fighter has going on.

Rogue's only way of boosting sneak attack is by getting more attacks in off-turn, which is a step harder to do than Fighter just existing.

That's probably an issue with rogues not having great feat support. But Dual Wielder probably helps, I'd have to crunch some numbers elsewhere. Rogues haven't felt weak in my games, but we're usually not heavily optimizing.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Dual Wielder probably helps

Fair, Rogues can be at 3 attacks with it (but need to get TWF style to make it worthwhile, so cannot remain pure).

Much as I slam Rogue (not just for being weak, but for being so flowchart-y to play, with no resources to manage, that you as the player aren't really needed), the new Thief existing makes me want to play one.

 

[FrogReaver]

A damage Fighter is (2d6*+4)x2, or 24, or 16 with a 65% hit chance, and can double thet once per short rest. A TWFing rogue is 5d6+5, or 23, or 16.3 with 65% miss chance. They lack the fighter's action surge, though.

Feats are not optional though and no feat significantly increases rogues level 5 damage. Fighters get feats that do.

It’s more like 2d6+4+1+3 x2 = 15x2 = 30, with mod damage on a miss. Then add in subclass damage buffs.