D&D General Multiclassing Shouldn't be Treated as the Default

[Corinnguard]

Is it still optional in the new PHB?

There are rules on how to multiclass in the new PHB. Still optional.

 

[FrogReaver]

I especially hate class proliferation when you get 17 ways to build the same archetype, just with different mechanics. "Oh, but this one is a divine warrior that bases using a two handed weapon off of WISDOM."

Classes need not explode in that way though.

 

[deadman1204]

While I kind of hate multiclassing, and it goes against the whole idea of a class-based system...

In 5e, martial classes easily have no choices to make after lv3 if they don't multiclass, so it's kind of necessary for them, just to feel like there is a decision point every level.

Thtas a basic design problem of 5th ed. ITs so over simplified that you get a single choice - subclass. Then maybe a feat or asi once or twice, then by lvl 8-9 the game is probably over. 9 levels and 3 choices, even though 2 were not real choices. Because there is a strictly better and worse choice amongst asi vs feat depending upon your class. So those 2 are often more of an illusion than actual choices.

I totally understand multiclassing due to boredom. Straight classes are SUPER boring because there is no choce to make. Everytime you play a subclass, its functionally identical to every other one. There are no real options to change anything.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Thtas a basic design problem of 5th ed. ITs so over simplified that you get a single choice - subclass. Then maybe a feat or asi once or twice, then by lvl 8-9 the game is probably over. 9 levels and 3 choices, even though 2 were not real choices. Because there is a strictly better and worse choice amongst asi vs feat depending upon your class. So those 2 are often more of an illusion than actual choices.

I totally understand multiclassing due to boredom. Straight classes are SUPER boring because there is no choce to make. Everytime you play a subclass, its functionally identical to every other one. There are no real options to change anything.

Again, this problem is straight-up fixed in Level Up.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thtas a basic design problem of 5th ed. ITs so over simplified that you get a single choice - subclass. Then maybe a feat or asi once or twice, then by lvl 8-9 the game is probably over. 9 levels and 3 choices, even though 2 were not real choices. Because there is a strictly better and worse choice amongst asi vs feat depending upon your class. So those 2 are often more of an illusion than actual choices.

I totally understand multiclassing due to boredom. Straight classes are SUPER boring because there is no choce to make. Everytime you play a subclass, it’s functionally identical to every other one. There are no real options to change anything.

in general I’ve not found that to be true. Playstyle is dictated by far more than subclass abilities (even in subclasses that don’t get a choice in what abilities they get). It’s how you use them. When you activate them. Weapon choices. Etc.

like in 2014 playing a bear totem barbarian that liked to grapple and dual wield 2 short swords when he wasn’t grappling something. That’s much different than the typical great sword swinging reckless attacking barbarian bear totem barbarian.

 

[Corinnguard]

Thtas a basic design problem of 5th ed. ITs so over simplified that you get a single choice - subclass. Then maybe a feat or asi once or twice, then by lvl 8-9 the game is probably over. 9 levels and 3 choices, even though 2 were not real choices. Because there is a strictly better and worse choice amongst asi vs feat depending upon your class. So those 2 are often more of an illusion than actual choices.

I totally understand multiclassing due to boredom. Straight classes are SUPER boring because there is no choce to make. Everytime you play a subclass, its functionally identical to every other one. There are no real options to change anything.

Character classes in Level Up have more customizable features and fewer dead levels than 5e. So, there is more of an incentive to stick to one class.

However, if you are still interested in multiclassing, there are the synergy feat chains.

 

[Ancalagon]

While I kind of hate multiclassing, and it goes against the whole idea of a class-based system...

In 5e, martial classes easily have no choices to make after lv3 if they don't multiclass, so it's kind of necessary for them, just to feel like there is a decision point every level.

... but does that choice/lack of choice even matter?

It does, if you play D&D as "the character builder game". And don't get me wrong - a lot of people really enjoy character building. If you have fun this way, good for you!

But ultimately, D&D is not a character building game. It's a roleplaying game. It's a bit like the person in a photography group who cares more about cameras - the lenses, the lighting equipment, the sensors, all the technical details - than you know, photography. They take photos sure, but it's more to test/prove/show off their camera and equipment than to create a beautiful/interesting image.

Martials not having any choices after level 3 is completely false. Every round you have a decision to make! Do you attack the goblins or attempts to hide? Or do you try to parlay? etc etc. It's only in the character building phase where this lack of choice exists, not in play. (and even this is not completely true anyway - feats/ASI for example).

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

Can you provide any reasonable source that says that rules bloat is a good thing?

I don't know. Can you provide any reasonable source that says Whoppers are better than Big Macs?

 

[Micah Sweet]

... but does that choice/lack of choice even matter?

It does, if you play D&D as "the character builder game". And don't get me wrong - a lot of people really enjoy character building. If you have fun this way, good for you!

But ultimately, D&D is not a character building game. It's a roleplaying game. It's a bit like the person in a photography group who cares more about cameras - the lenses, the lighting equipment, the sensors, all the technical details - than you know, photography. They take photos sure, but it's more to test/prove/show off their camera and equipment than to create a beautiful/interesting image.

Martials not having any choices after level 3 is completely false. Every round you have a decision to make! Do you attack the goblins or attempts to hide? Or do you try to parlay? etc etc. It's only in the character building phase where this lack of choice exists, not in play. (and even this is not completely true anyway - feats/ASI for example).

The character building phase, just like the worldbuilding phase, is just as much a part of the game as the rest of it, and how a person finds fun in the expression of their hobby should not be subject to some kind of objective priority list.

 

[Xeviat]

only multiclass that I like would be even split, but that is really awful in 5e, maybe if levels for Extra attack stack, martials could got away with it as in 3.5e with base attack bonus,

we played with version of multiclass where you are even split between 2 classes but on levels 5,8,11,14,17 and 20 you get 2 class levels instead of one, you still get only one increase of HPs(alternating between lower and higher HP gain), HDs and proficiency bonus.

I.E: fighter wizard at 20th level would have features of 13th level fighter and 13th level wizard, but still be 20th level total with +6 proficiency bonus and HPs of 10th level fighter and 10th level wizard.
with one extra limit, cannot have 2 full spellcasters multiclass.

I've long considered mixing a little 4E and Cantrip scaling into 5E. Instead of giving out Extra Attack, have weapon damage scale by dice at 5th, 11th, and 17th, and then replace extra attack with thematic abilities for the classes (fighters get weapon specialization/mastery, barbarians get half damage on a miss, paladins get extra radiant damage, rangers get extra favored Enemy damage, and monks could maybe still have extra attacks somehow).