D&D 5E What is the "Simple" Full Casting Class?

[FrogReaver]

I find bards are relatively simple in game play and the complex part is only in spell selection as far as spellcasting is concerned.

Sorcerers are balancing slots to points, points to slots, metamagic, and spell planning.

The idea that sorcerers are more simple in complexity than bards seems like a weird take to me. ;-)

Both seem similar in complexity to me. Bardic inspiration gets fairly involved once subclasses are added in. Metamagic is basically equivalent to that in complexity, or close enough, imo.

 

[Zardnaar]

Both seem similar in complexity to me. Bardic inspiration gets fairly involved once subclasses are added in. Metamagic is basically equivalent to that in complexity, or close enough, imo.

I would put metamagic over bard dice in complexity.

At least once you've picked your subclass.

 

[Ashrym]

Dragons order 2014 is fairly simple imho. 2024 isn't that hard.

You might not be optimal but it's kinda hard to mess up unless you try eg deliberately not pick fire spells as a fire one.

Dragon Sorcerers are still converting points back and forth from spell slots using Font of Magic mixed with Metamagic. It's a basic feature of the class from 2nd level on.

That's not simple no matter how we look at it.

Both seem similar in complexity to me. Bardic inspiration gets fairly involved once subclasses are added in. Metamagic is basically equivalent to that in complexity, or close enough, imo.

Depends which subclass. Bardic Inspiration adds complexity we don't see as much with Channel Divinity, but I still think it's less complex than Font of Magic.

On a Valor Bard it's not that complex however. Valor Bards only need to choose who gets Bardic Inspiration.

I'm not surprised ppl voted for Bards though. I'm thinking this poll should have been a list of subclasses instead of classes.

I am surprised ppl thought managing spell slot to sorc point conversion along with Metamagic management was a simple process compared to other spellcasting classes.

 

[FrogReaver]

I would put metamagic over bard dice in complexity.

At least once you've picked your subclass.

Why?

 

[Zardnaar]

Why?

It's kinda hard to evaluate the various bardic subclasses inspiration dice. Metamagics a bit more straight forward.

Once you select a bard archetype it's locked in and fairly straight forward on its effects. What metamagic to use and when isn't to hard especially with some nudging.

Font of magic somewhat optional a lot of sorcerer players I've seen rarely use it. Sorlocks being an exception.

As always it depends on player experience and willingness to listen if they're new.

My current newbies are great. One asked us to break down the champion vs battlemaster. She basically figured out the champion wasn't great and asked for advice on maneuvers. Combined with polearm master feat. C&C do you like skills or damage. Picked skills. 5E "I want to hit stuff hard" and go from there.

 

[Maxperson]

guess the only thing is to work on threat recognition.

you should not waste a fireball on a goblin, but 10 of them? sure.
5th level fighter will need 5 rounds to clear them, they will do a lot of damage by then. Damage that is "pre healed" by a well placed fireball.

See, that's not right. 10 goblins and in a group with martials that will tear through them with cantrip support? Don't waste a 3rd level slot. Low on resources and the martials are all pretty wounded? Let it loose. And a lot of other situations that require the wizard to analyze the situation to see which spell to cast.

 

[Maxperson]

Cannot truly vote. The answer is "none of the above."

There isn't an actually simple full caster. There is one that is simplest by a nose (Cleric, because divine magic is much simpler than arcane due to always knowing every spell on your list), but realistically all spellcasting classes in 5e are extremely complex things.

It's really interesting to see why people rate classes as complex or not. To me the cleric is a lot more complex than the wizard for the very reason you say it's simple. You have 10x the decision points when trying to figure out which limited set of spells you will memorize. The wizard is a lot easier for me because it has a much more limited pool of spells to pick from.

 

[Maxperson]

Ah. Thought you had replied again with a very similar post.

I've done that a few times.

 

[FrogReaver]

It's kinda hard to evaluate the various bardic subclasses inspiration dice. Metamagics a bit more straight forward.

Once you select a bard archetype it's locked in and fairly straight forward on its effects. What metamagic to use and when isn't to hard especially with some nudging.

Font of magic somewhat optional a lot of sorcerer players I've seen rarely use it. Sorlocks being an exception.

As always it depends on player experience and willingness to listen if they're new.

My current newbies are great. One asked us to break down the champion vs battlemaster. She basically figured out the champion wasn't great and asked for advice on maneuvers. Combined with polearm master feat. C&C do you like skills or damage. Picked skills. 5E "I want to hit stuff hard" and go from there.

I'm a big fan of the new champion. Advantage to initiative at level 3, another fighting style at level 7 (worst case is probably +1 AC or blind fighting). The level 10 ability that gives heroic inspiration every turn is bonkers. Expanded crit range is alot better with so much advantage/rerolls flying around.

I wouldn't play one before. I would now.

Is battlemaster still a little better, early for sure, but that's less and less clear as the champion levels.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm a big fan of the new champion. Advantage to initiative at level 3, another fighting style at level 7 (worst case is probably +1 AC or blind fighting). The level 10 ability that gives heroic inspiration every turn is bonkers. Expanded crit range is alot better with so much advantage/rerolls flying around.

I wouldn't play one before. I would now.

Is battlemaster still a little better, early for sure, but that's less and less clear as the champion levels.

I like new one as well.