D&D (2024) Do players really want balance?

[Thomas Shey]

Though often one that is ignored most of the time. Usually rest of the world seems to operate like death was permanent, the revolving door mostly exists only for the PCs. Which I find weird. Not that I'd like a setting where this was actually taken into account either. I just remove such spells.

I can point at a setting like that: Draegera.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'd say any setting in which raise dead or resurrection are present need to think through the implications; a lot of generic D&D settings don't really engage with the topic deeply enough. There's a fair amount of "This setting is low-magic, and clerics who can actually cast raise dead are super-rare and hardly ever do it! Oh, your PC is dead....why, there's a 9th level cleric in this hidden shrine right over there!"

You can see this tension in BG3, where scrolls of resurrection are actually really common and the god of death hangs around your camp to rez everyone in the party for chump change, but as soon as any NPC dies they're dead for good and can't be brought back. Basically, "combat death" and "narrative death" are two different things happening at two different game layers, which is something TTRPGs can have trouble handling.

There certainly can be settings where raise dead is both common and worked into the fiction; Steven Brust is pretty famous for that.

I'm with you. I'd like resurrection to be much more difficult than the D&D default, both mechanically and in setting.

 

[TwoSix]

Though often one that is ignored most of the time. Usually rest of the world seems to operate like death was permanent, the revolving door mostly exists only for the PCs. Which I find weird. Not that I'd like a setting where this was actually taken into account either. I just remove such spells.

Edit: Seems that while I was typing @TwoSix elaborated on the matter in more depth.

It depends on the game and the spell for me.

My current Eberron game is probably the most "normal" setting I run. Revivify is pretty basic, and really just narrates like an advanced healing spell; it's more of someone coming back with CPR or shoving a needle in Uma Thurman's chest.

Reincarnate is pretty available, because I have primal magic as being more common than divine magic, and I simply like reincarnate as a spell because it creates a more interesting narrative. Raise Dead and up are simply expensive and hard to find, you need a high-level Jorasco healer or a really motivated member of the Silver Flame.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It depends on the game and the spell for me.

My current Eberron game is probably the most "normal" setting I run. Revivify is pretty basic, and really just narrates like an advanced healing spell; it's more of someone coming back with CPR or shoving a needle in Uma Thurman's chest.

Yeah, that's why I have kept it as well. And it doesn't produce this weird prolonged awkward quantum death where the character is technically dead but actually revivable. Within minute we will know whether the character is permanently gone or not, and everyone can react appropriately.

Reincarnate is pretty available, because I have primal magic as being more common than divine magic, and I simply like reincarnate as a spell because it creates a more interesting narrative. Raise Dead and up are simply expensive and hard to find, you need a high-level Jorasco healer or a really motivated member of the Silver Flame.

I can see your point with reincarnate, though that's both too weird but still too convenient for my tastes. But for similar reasons I might be fine with bringing back a dead character as an appropriately horrifying playable undead.

 

[ezo]

The comment you quoted wasn't talking about dcc funnels or extreme house ruled game that no longer resemble d&d5e.

LOL what are you talking about. I was discussing exactly 5E. No house-rules or whatever involved (at least not concerning PC death).

It sounds very much like you are not talking about 5e with so many PC deaths to a campaign or you have left out huge and super relevant details like the house rules or player actions that resulted in no NPCs willing to do the deed for coin.

Nope. Not at all. It might sound like that to you, but it is really your farily standard 5E game:

Spoiler: PC deaths

Party began with:
A. Half-Orc fighter
B. Drow rogue
C. Kobold sorcerer
D. Human paladin.

D died in the 1st session (at 1st level), 4th encounter, against 2 goblins and a goblin acolyte. Goblin hit him and the acolyte hit him with an inflict wounds for high(ish) damage which overflowed his max HP, so instant death. The PCs were not near any sort of large(ish) town to get access to raise dead before the time limit expired.

E. Half-elf warlock joined to replace D.

C died at the of session 9 (3rd level), 38th encounter, against a ghost. He was a bit low on HP (above half). Failed death saves before anyone could stabilize him. The PCs were up in the moutains far from anyone who could raise him.

F. Half-orc palading joined to replace C.

E. Left for story reasons and (G) Dwarf sorcerer (divine soul) joined to increase party size to 4.

G just died in session 21 (6th level), 75th encounter, against two sea hags and four sahuagins. Failed his save so was reduced to 0 HP vs. a sea hag. Failed his 1st death save. Sea hag "crit" him while unconscious to kill him. He was our resident healer. The players are hoping to get back to a nearby city before the time limit for raise dead expires. We will begin that journey tonight.

EXTRA: we also had an NPC "sidekick" who kicked it in session 14 against some firenewts. Fell unconscious due to a fireball and a firenewt pushed him into lava. OUCH! Yeah, he died quickly.

Now, you might play in D&D games where every town has a 9th level priest with raise dead who will gladly use it before the PCs do a quest, or maybe they have the funds to just pay the priest for it? Or diamonds are found in every hoard to allow the PCs to use revivify IF you have a caster who knows it? But not every group rolls that way, and those games without a plethora of "raising" options are still VERY MUCH D&D!

We are playing 99% RAW, by the way. We use the variant to reroll initiative each round (not a house rule) and use exploding critical damage (which has little mathematical impact on the game) instead of critical "hits" on the d20. To the deaths that have occured, the critical damage rule hasn't even been a factor.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd say any setting in which raise dead or resurrection are present need to think through the implications; a lot of generic D&D settings don't really engage with the topic deeply enough. There's a fair amount of "This setting is low-magic, and clerics who can actually cast raise dead are super-rare and hardly ever do it! Oh, your PC is dead....why, there's a 9th level cleric in this hidden shrine right over there!"

You can see this tension in BG3, where scrolls of resurrection are actually really common and the god of death hangs around your camp to rez everyone in the party for chump change, but as soon as any NPC dies they're dead for good and can't be brought back. Basically, "combat death" and "narrative death" are two different things happening at two different game layers, which is something TTRPGs can have trouble handling.

There certainly can be settings where raise dead is both common and worked into the fiction; Steven Brust is pretty famous for that.

We don't all do that, though. Coming back from the dead is in my game, but it's rare. Most PCs who die stay dead and the player rolls up a new character. Sometimes, though, there really is a cleric or other entity around who can do it.

 

[Oofta]

In my game revivify works because the soul hasn't gone on to the afterlife. After a minute the souls go on to the shadowfell. So Raise Dead just opens a portal to the shadowfell and someone still needs to find the soul to bring it back. How long a soul hangs out in the shadowfell depends on the individual, but the longer they wait to go to their final destination the more likely they are to become ghosts.

After a soul is in their final resting place, there is no record of anyone ever coming back.

 

[Umbran]

Why don't you buy it???

Because while marketing and influencers can help convince someone to try a new game, they won't get people to continue playing if the game isn't fun for them. In the long run, if the game is really crap, people won't play it. That simple.

Arguments of the form, "I am wise, and learned other games are better, and everyone who continues to play this are just sheep enthralled by marketing," are incredibly arrogant and rude positions to take.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I know I complain about 5e quite a bit, but I still think it is easily the overall best iteration of D&D. On forums we often talk about the things we have issues with, rather than what works. But the truth of the matter is that most of it works pretty well. And I think that is required for continued success; the game doesn't need to be stellar, but it needs to be good enough. And to a lot of people it is.

 

[Oofta]

I know I complain about 5e quite a bit, but I still think it is easily the overall best iteration of D&D. On forums we often talk about the things we have issues with, rather than what works. But the truth of the matter is that most of it works pretty well. And I think that is required for continued success, the game doesn't need to be stellar, but it needs to be good enough. And to a lot of people is.

The other thing is that it's reasonably easy to tweak. I only have a page or so of house rules and go with the gritty rest rules myself. But I still have changes I wouldn't have even tried with 4E for example. Then there's a plethora of 3PP to change the nature of the game in ways I think would have been difficult with most versions.