Dungeons & Dragons Has Done Away With the Adventuring Day

Status
Not open for further replies.
dnd dmg adventuring day.jpg


Adventuring days are no more, at least not in the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide. The new 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide contains a streamlined guide to combat encounter planning, with a simplified set of instructions on how to build an appropriate encounter for any set of characters. The new rules are pretty basic - the DM determines an XP budget based on the difficulty level they're aiming for (with choices of low, moderate, or high, which is a change from the 2014 Dungeon Master's Guide) and the level of the characters in a party. They then spend that budget on creatures to actually craft the encounter. Missing from the 2024 encounter building is applying an encounter multiplier based on the number of creatures and the number of party members, although the book still warns that more creatures adds the potential for more complications as an encounter is playing out.

What's really interesting about the new encounter building rules in the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide is that there's no longer any mention of the "adventuring day," nor is there any recommendation about how many encounters players should have in between long rests. The 2014 Dungeon Master's Guide contained a recommendation that players should have 6 to 8 medium or hard encounters per adventuring day. The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide instead opts to discuss encounter pace and how to balance player desire to take frequent Short Rests with ratcheting up tension within the adventure.

The 6-8 encounters per day guideline was always controversial and at least in my experience rarely followed even in official D&D adventures. The new 2024 encounter building guidelines are not only more streamlined, but they also seem to embrace a more common sense approach to DM prep and planning.

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide for Dungeons & Dragons will be released on November 12th.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Christian Hoffer

Christian Hoffer

Can you think of examples where player knowledge would really matter?

For example, does everyone at the table need to pretend they are surprised that a Troll requires fire to kill it?

That would feel off to me.

Plus, in a setting where people encounter Trolls, fire would definitely be part of the folklore.

Again, if the DM really wants to surprise the players, create a different kind of Troll. (Norwegian folklore is full of extremely different kinds of troll, if looking for inspiration.)
I never said anything about surprising the players. I am talking about striving (and I know you'll never achieve perfection here) to separate player and PC knowledge.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Can you think of examples where player knowledge would really matter?

For example, does everyone at the table need to pretend they are surprised that a Troll requires fire to kill it?

That would feel off to me.

Plus, in a setting where people encounter Trolls, fire would definitely be part of the folklore.

Again, if the DM really wants to surprise the players, create a different kind of Troll. (Norwegian folklore is full of extremely different kinds of troll, if looking for inspiration.)

I let people know I occasionally modify monsters. I've also been in a game (I was not DM) where a player would literally open the MM and read out info. We told him to stop because it made the game less fun for the rest of us. Since I DM I know details about a lot of monsters. I ask the DM if I know I need to use fire to kill trolls, in my game if a troll shows up I'll let them know common knowledge.
 

Yes. We have kept saying the player does have the power to veto and leave the game. That is the players option. The DM has the authority in his campaign to define the setting and control the NPCs/Monsters. The player has the right to say what his character is trying to do and most of the time do it with some exceptions. (e.g. mind control, paralysis, etc..)

Meanwhile the DM can occasionally say "It doesn't work" followed by "and you don't know why" or "because [some clarification of the fiction or some other reason]." The player doesn't get to declare the result of their action, just what actions they take.
 

I've got no idea what you're talking about here.

The next group did whatever they did. But what they did has nothing to do with the game I was describing.
The fiction is the game, not the shared space. You don't get a different game every time a player doesn't show up. You can't keep the fiction from moving forward. You can only take part in or remove yourself from it.
I think it would be pretty weird for that GM to have kept all our PCs as NPCs. What would be the point of that?
Game world consistency, which is important to a lot of people who play the game. If you play in my game, your PC is part of the world. Your PC isn't going to vanish from it just because you leave the game.
I assume that he started a new game with a new group. That's certainly what it looked like at the time.
I don't know what the kobold DM you spoke about did. My point is that just because you leave, doesn't mean that the fiction doesn't move forward without you. You cannot stop the fiction from moving forward. Only the DM can do that.
 

Are you saying that 5.5 has removed rule zero? Hard to claim without seeing the DMG, and hard to accept as the same edition of D&D if true.
Not sure what he was getting at & don't want to guess with a ten foot pole but I think it has been a while since the words "rule zero" have been printed on pages of the actual rulebooks. Pretty sure it got an occasional mention in old dragon magazine stuff every so often but it has been a while since I remember reading the words "rule zero" or "rule 0" on the pages of a d&d book beside whatever text it did contain carrying similar concepts.

Overall it's kind of a shame because not having it by name makes it harder to find when the obscure footnote is needed
 

What rule of AD&D are you referring to here? (There is no concept of a "knowledge check", at least as we were familiar with the rulebooks in 1990).
sorry i was under the impression this was a 5th edition game, my mistake.
How is it metagaming? The MM records information about creatures, which we as players were familiar with, and which we then treated as the knowledge that our PCs had. That's not metagaming. I mean, it's like saying that it is metagaming for the player of the MU to rely on the Players Handbook for knowledge of what spells do.
there are alot of monsters in that book, you really mean to say your character has every detail of relevant entries in that book memorised? or to be more generous, i go walking in the woods, do i really have encyclopedic breakdown of everything every owl, fox, rabbit, sheep and many more is capable of? you cannot take for granted this knowledge is commonplace in the setting, even amongst those who deal with these monsters on a regular basis, it is a huge assumption that your character just 'knows this information'
 

So, you don't see how this might:

1. Encourage more people who would be liable to such behavior to become DMs?
No. They will or won't regardless.
2. Convince some who have erred that they were in the right all along?
No. They will be sure of themselves or not regardless.
3. Create a culture of play where throwing one's weight around is not just normalized, but promoted?
No. The game does not promote that at all. A person will be like that or not regardless. Someone who is like isn't going to cease being like that because of some rules telling him not to.
4. Discourage players from being active participants, because the rules literally do say the DM can shut them down for any reason or no reason at all?
No, they SHOULD understand that people are people and some are going to be jerks regardless, but the vast majority will not be and will not abuse the game.
You are wrong that nothing changes.
I disagree.
 

Not sure what he was getting at & don't want to guess with a ten foot pole but I think it has been a while since the words "rule zero" have been printed on pages of the actual rulebooks. Pretty sure it got an occasional mention in old dragon magazine stuff every so often but it has been a while since I remember reading the words "rule zero" or "rule 0" on the pages of a d&d book beside whatever text it did contain carrying similar concepts.

Overall it's kind of a shame because not having it by name makes it harder to find when the obscure footnote is needed
I think rule 0 though is a gamer invention to describe the paragraphs about that subject in the rulebook. I don't think the precise term rule 0 was ever used in a core book as you say even in 1e. I think it's a bad debating tactic to go at a term instead of the underlying truth. I see it outside of gaming a lot too. A term will develop for something and someone will say "They didn't even know about <term>" three hundred years ago. Yet they had ways of saying the same thing. The term is new but not the idea.
 

Yep. When people say the GM has power over the game, they mean de jure power given them by the game's rules and instructions. Everyone has agreed, that this power is mediated by de facto power of the social contract among the participants.

I don't think anyone disagrees with what is actually happening, but we again have this pointless semantic quagmire that @pemerton seems to love. There are productive things regarding this we could discuss, like what that social contract could and should entail, but the exact words and phrases used to describe the situation is not among them.
I don't know what you mean by "social contract" here. The only usage I'm familiar with in the context of RPGs comes from The Forge, where it means (roughly) the agreement to use a particular set of constraints, rules, processes and expectations in establishing the content of the shared fiction.

The same people who coined that terminology endorse the "Lumpley Principle", which asserts that social contract is prior to system - or in other words, that formal rules that proclaim that one party has authority can't actually do any work, if there is no agreement among participants. Which is exactly what I have been saying, and is why rules that purport to give one party absolute power in respect of the shared fiction are pointless.

And this is not just semantics - presenting it as semantics is, in effect, an attempt to put forward a particular type of play (namely, GM-driven railroading) as if it were normative or even exclusive. As soon as we have non-railroading play - that is, play where the players can actually make a meaningful difference to what happens next - then it has to be the case that the GM does not have unlimited power over the shared fiction; because it has to be the case that the players can do things or produce results that bind the GM. (Because if they can't, then only the GM can make a meaningful difference to what happens next, and we're back on the railroad.)

I didn't learn RPGing in the 2nd ed and 3E eras. I learned RPGing primarily from Moldvay Basic. Secondary sources, for me, were Classic Traveller and Gygax's AD&D books; and also early White Dwarf essays, especially from Lewis Pulsipher and Roger Musson. None of these deny that the GM is bound by rules and expectations, or assert that the GM has unlimited power to make up whatever they want whenever they want, so that all the players can do is prompt the GM to make decisions about what to include or not to include in the shared fiction.

These differences between GM-driven and other approaches aren't just semantic. I've encountered them, repeatedly, both in actual play experiences and in conversations about them.

My view is that GM-driven play is inherently fragile in a way that other approaches are not, because everything depends upon the GM having worthwhile stuff to say, and there is no turning to the players to produce their own worthwhile stuff. I also think that that fragility can be reduced by GMs recognising that their stuff will only become part of the shared fiction if the players accept it, and therefore taking note of what does or doesn't engage or enthuse their players, and factoring that into their decision-making about what sort of stuff to produce. A futile insistence that the GM's power to make up stuff is unlimited is not only empty - as the Lumpley Principle tells us - but distracts GM's attention from what they actually need to make a GM-driven game go, which is not an insistence on their power but rather ongoing success in engaging their players.

I read repeated stories on these boards about failed or unhappy play - a recent one was in this thread, with a GM poster lamenting the inanity of one of the players in his game having his PC Firebolt a random bird in the woods. There is a fruitful pathway to better play experiences for that poster, but insisting on the GM's absolute power over the fiction is not part of that pathway. Acknowledgement of the Lumpley Principle, and then the next step of thinking How can I create fiction that my players will experience as worthwhile, so that they don't feel obliged to entertain themselves by having their PCs Firebolt random birds, is part of that pathway.

I mean, even going back to the story I told about the Kobold interrogation that brought a game to an end. Insisting that that GM had absolute power, and that we as players were all obliged to go along with the GM's conception, contributes nothing to understanding (i) what happened , and (ii) how it might have been avoided, such that everyone at that table could have had a better time. Whereas recognising that shared fiction is, by definition, shared; and hence that uptake by the players matters; and hence that the real issue is not any supposed absolute power, but rather how to come up with stuff that is worthwhile, engaging and even (heavens forbid!) compelling - that actually helps identify a pathway to a solution. The first step on that path being recognising when the players are telling you that your stuff is terrible.
 

From Gygax's PHB (pp 15-17)

The race of dwarves typically dwells in hilly or mountainous regions. For details of the race in general the reader is referred to ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL. . . .​
There are many sorts of elves, and descriptions of the differing types are found in ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL. . . .​
A gnome's preferred habitation is an area of rolling, rocky hills, well-wooded and uninhabited by humans. Details of the race are found in ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL. . . .​
For details of the typical half-elf see ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL under the heading Elf. . . .​
Complete information on halflings is found in ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL. . . .​
Complete details of orcs and crossbreeds will be found under the heading Orc in ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL.​

The reader of the PHB - presumably a player - is expressly referred to the MM.

In addition, Dwarves and Gnomes speak the language of Kobolds, and Gnomes gain +1 to hit Kobolds. Do you think that Dwarf and Gnome PCs are nevertheless ignorant about Kobolds?
the player is expressly referred to specific entries in the MM, but that is in no way permission or encouragement to read the entire thing and assume it is common knowledge.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Remove ads

Top