D&D (2024) I have the DMG. AMA!

[TwoSix]

Watched new players discuss the in game ramifications of the cleric/god relationship.

GM told the player of the cleric of Heironeous that had used trickery and deceit instead of valor in combat, that their dreams were being disturbed by the rumblings of thunder, and they felt their connection to their god weakening.

But here's the key, THEY CAME UP WITH THAT ON THEIR OWN, to them it was implicit in the story of being a Valor cleric.

So it doesnt matter when/if the PH or DMG says the DM can or can't, players bring their concepts of the relationship to the game from books/culture/movies, whatever, and it made sense to them.

One thing I've done before when I've played a conflicted cleric is narrate the fails on their spell attack rolls, or when enemies made their save, as being the result of their wavering faith and the loss of connection to their god.

 

[mamba]

Not to me.

To me they're a prefab toolbox that start building my character concept off of.

and I guess that is the difference. In a superhero game, anyone can have whatever powers and be whatever, since they are all unique. In a fantasy world a class falls into a certain slot. A cleric generally belongs to some religious order, etc. he is not one unique character that only has being a mutant in common with others

 

[Greg K]

I think given D&D's history we've found that the "losing your powers" doesn't work and leads to negative play experiences.

It leads to a negative experience some players and not for others. Not having "losing powers" as an option is the same which is why it should be a supported option in the DMG.

 

[Vaalingrade]

In a superhero game, anyone can have whatever powers and be whatever, since they are all unique.

Okay, this has absolutely nothing to do with superheroes aside from attempting to invoke some negative feelings in certain people on the board.

In a fantasy world a class falls into a certain slot.

Not all fantasy worlds have or need classes. Not all fantasy games have or need classes. What class were Frodo and Sam? What class was Conan (Nope, not that one; certainly not the one he inspired). In act, what classes were literally any characters in fantasy before D&D invented the idea of classes?

 

[Vaalingrade]

It leads to a negative experience some players and not for others. Not having "losing powers" as an option is the same which is why it should be a supported option in the DMG.

Please locate for me a story where someone raves about how great it was their their Paladin fell for an action they didn't know the DM decided was evil. One provided by someone not a member of this community and not one told by the DM that did the deed; one from the player.

 

[mamba]

Not all fantasy worlds have or need classes. Not all fantasy games have or need classes.

D&D has them, last I checked we were discussing D&D not a generic unspecified TTRPG

In act, what classes were literally any characters in fantasy before D&D invented the idea of classes?

probably mostly warriors / knights, thieves, priests and wizards (or a more generic spellcaster), D&D did not invent that

 

[Remathilis]

But both options are still presented as equally valid choices. One is just more popular than the other.

True. But try to buy a manual transmission car in 2024. They ain't exactly stock option for most vehicles anymore. You can't exactly be angry at the dealership for failing to offer one to you.

 

[Neonchameleon]

But we aren't allowed to have new classes anymore. Just a handful of subclasses ever few months.

I'm more a fan of letting classes be broad concepts that the player then customizes and flavors anyway.

Maybe god doesn't believe in me, but I believe in them SO HARD regardless of how badly I'm misinterpreting them.

Or --and cookie for anyone who gets the reference -- "Lord Zomelgustaar... is a god I made up."

Not that I would ever play anything like a Paladin of the Blood of Vol - when not being read in to what the inner circle of the cult actually believes...

The thing is that the new classes I want are ones that push the boat out. I don't want the tsunami of 3.X or 4e classes that were all relatively minor variations on the theme; I don't want another full caster or another half caster unless we make the artificer use pact magic mechanics (I think that Infusions instead of Invocations and pact-preparation would work well). But things like a shapeshifter yes please.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It leads to a negative experience some players and not for others. Not having "losing powers" as an option is the same which is why it should be a supported option in the DMG.

You can't miss what you didn't have. Who other than a few grognard DMs does it lead to a negative play experience for?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Please locate for me a story where someone raves about how great it was their their Paladin fell for an action they didn't know the DM decided was evil. One provided by someone not a member of this community and not one told by the DM that did the deed; one from the player.

I've had a player chime in and agree that they deserved it. Demon offered gifts, paladin wished for a Holy Avenger, demon vanished and came back with a Holy Avenger ... still held in a plate-covered arm, dripping blood from the shoulder. The arm of the previous paladin who wielded it. (And no I wasn't the DM). But it was the DM telling this story and it was definitely in the "Player mistake or twisted wish category" from an obvious wish-twister.

Other than that I got nowt.