Dungeons & Dragons May Not Come Back to Greyhawk After 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide

Wizards of the Coast does not appear to have future plans for the Greyhawk setting past the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide. Speaking at a press event earlier this month, Dungeons & Dragons game architect Chris Perkins explained that the inclusion of Greyhawk campaign setting material in the upcoming rulebook was meant to stand on its own. "Basically, we're saying 'Hey DMs, we're giving you Greyhawk as a foundation on which you can build your own setting stuff,'" Perkins said when asked about future Greyhawk setting material. "Whether we get back to Greyhawk or not in some capacity I cannot say, but that's our intention for now. This is the sandbox, it's Greyhawk. Go off and run Greyhawk or Greyhawk-like campaigns with this if you wish. We may not come to this version of Greyhawk for a while because we DMs to own it and play with it. This is not a campaign setting where I think we need to go in and start defining large sections of the world and adding more weight of content that DMs have to sit through in order to feel like they're running a proper Greyhawk campaign."

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide includes a campaign setting gazetteer focused on the Greyhawk setting, one of D&D's earliest campaign settings. The use of Greyhawk is intended to be an example for DMs on how to build a full-fledged campaign setting, with an overview of major conflicts and places to explore within the world. New maps of both Oerth and the city of Greyhawk are also included in the rulebook.

However, while it seems like Wizards isn't committing to future Greyhawk campaign setting material, Perkins admitted that the fans still have a say in the matter. "We're not so immutable with our plans that if the fans rose up and said 'Give us something Greyhawk,' that we would say 'No, never,'" Perkins said. "That won't happen."

Perkins also teased the appearance of more campaign settings in the future. "We absolutely will be exploring new D&D worlds and that door is always open," Perkins said.

 

[Stuart Kerrigan]

A lot of original Ravenloft was bad though. No matter how much you polish a turd, its still gonna be just poop, and its better to throw it out and grab a gem instead. Just saying, when folks talk about the good part of Ravenloft, they bring up Strahd, not "The blatent Frakenstein expy"

I liked the blatant Frankenstein expy. And the novel of the expy. Sometimes you don't always have to reinvent the wheel and games don't have to be super original all the time.

Let's not pretend original Ravenloft could just be reprinted in this day and age without being torn to shreds for how dated it is, and how massive changes were required.

It wasn't that long ago it was printed for 3e and there wasn't the huge outcry then. I just don't get people these days.. We're supposedly so diverse and tolerant now yet we're so quick say, "Well this wouldn't be allowed now."

 

[pemerton]

So does Japan. So does Argentina.

Sure. But if you shrink the scale, and keep the regions, then you get a smaller distance between tropics and arctic than is typical.

I mean, my Google search tells me that Argentina is 2,360 miles long, which is almost 80GH hexes. (Or more than that, if you reduce the hex size away from the equator to try and capture some of the spherical nature of the world.)

I've rarely (not never) done FRPGing where things being that distant from one another really matters.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

They've also rejected a fair bit of pre 1985 Greyhawk as well. Might as well call it Fauxhawk.

By changing a few names?

 

[Parmandur]

Sure. But if you shrink the scale, and keep the regions, then you get a smaller distance between tropics and arctic than is typical.

I mean, my Google search tells me that Argentina is 2,360 miles long, which is almost 80GH hexes. (Or more than that, if you reduce the hex size away from the equator to try and capture some of the spherical nature of the world.)

I've rarely (not never) done FRPGing where things being that distant from one another really matters.

I think the scale of Hreyhawk is fine as-is, the howlijgbwilderness is a definite feature.

It isnworth noting that the new DMG has ditched simulationist hex-crawl style travel in favor of a more flexible narratives montage of Encounters.

 

[Mecheon]

I liked the blatant Frankenstein expy. And the novel of the expy. Sometimes you don't always have to reinvent the wheel and games don't have to be super original all the time.

It wasn't that long ago it was printed for 3e and there wasn't the huge outcry then. I just don't get people these days.. We're supposedly so diverse and tolerant now yet we're so quick say, "Well this wouldn't be allowed now."

And I like the up to date one that gives you a 'can be an ally can be an enemy' figure that's got a lot more use everywhere, rather than being this weird one note "Man atheism bad" thing they had their. Someone damning themselves through their actions rather than "oh the gods got pissy and gave an EVIL SOUL" is a lot more compelling as a story

3E was 20 years ago which, y'know, is more than 'not long ago', and the company that published the Ravenloft stuff then, White Wolf, is, y'know. White Wolf. Given what happened to White Wolf, I don't think WotC wants to replicate what they've done

 

[Parmandur]

And I like the up to date one that gives you a 'can be an ally can be an enemy' figure that's got a lot more use everywhere, rather than being this weird one note "Man atheism bad" thing they had their. Someone damning themselves through their actions rather than "oh the gods got pissy and gave an EVIL SOUL" is a lot more compelling as a story

3E was 20 years ago which, y'know, is more than 'not long ago', and the company that published the Ravenloft stuff then, White Wolf, is, y'know. White Wolf. Given what happened to White Wolf, I don't think WotC wants to replicate what they've done

Seriously, 3E has been out of print for 21 years, and 3.5 for 16 years.

 

[Hussar]

Sure. But if you shrink the scale, and keep the regions, then you get a smaller distance between tropics and arctic than is typical.

I mean, my Google search tells me that Argentina is 2,360 miles long, which is almost 80GH hexes. (Or more than that, if you reduce the hex size away from the equator to try and capture some of the spherical nature of the world.)

I've rarely (not never) done FRPGing where things being that distant from one another really matters.

That's my point. The distance from The Amedio Jungle to the far north is almost the same as the size of Argentina. It's freaking huge. Never minding that Argentina is only about 800 miles wide at its widest. Like you say, it's almost never needed to be that big. A campaign will mostly stay within a much smaller area, typically.

But, every FRPG setting is this honking massive land mass.

Again, this is totally my preference. I would prefer my settings to be much more bite sized. Barovia in Ravenloft is about the perfect size IMO. Isle of Dread can be used for an entire campaign and it's about two Greyhawk hexes.

You need cold? Plonk a mountain in the setting. You need warm? That's what volcanoes are for. Or, heck, magic.

 

[Parmandur]

That's my point. The distance from The Amedio Jungle to the far north is almost the same as the size of Argentina. It's freaking huge. Never minding that Argentina is only about 800 miles wide at its widest. Like you say, it's almost never needed to be that big. A campaign will mostly stay within a much smaller area, typically.

But, every FRPG setting is this honking massive land mass.

Again, this is totally my preference. I would prefer my settings to be much more bite sized. Barovia in Ravenloft is about the perfect size IMO. Isle of Dread can be used for an entire campaign and it's about two Greyhawk hexes.

You need cold? Plonk a mountain in the setting. You need warm? That's what volcanoes are for. Or, heck, magic.

On the other hand, back on the WotC forums in The Day, it was death that every published D&D Setting would comfortably fit on Earth without breaking a sweat. Rather than "Too Big", there isna bias towards "too managable" in FRPG Setting sizes.

 

[pemerton]

That's my point.

Yeah, I'm agreeing. All I was adding was that changing the scale, while not affecting game play and maybe even helping it, would make the distance from tropical to arctic a bit short.

You need cold? Plonk a mountain in the setting. You need warm? That's what volcanoes are for. Or, heck, magic.

Good solutions!

 

[Hussar]

On the other hand, back on the WotC forums in The Day, it was death that every published D&D Setting would comfortably fit on Earth without breaking a sweat. Rather than "Too Big", there isna bias towards "too managable" in FRPG Setting sizes.

I would argue that the bias is towards too unmanageable. As in the setting is far too large for one DM to manage. There's just too much there.