D&D 5E [House Rule] Dropping proficiency bonus

[TwoSix]

One strange thing this rule does is make you crit more often with non proficient weapons. Not a huge deal, but it’s kind of odd.

Hmm.

20+ on the die roll: Auto-hit, double damage.
12 on a d12. Auto-hit, no double damage.

That feels OK, might think about it some more.

 

[ezo]

@TwoSix

This probably won't work for you but in a similar line one of the the systems we've worked on is:

Proficient: 2d10
Non-prof: 2d8
Expertise: 2d12

Advantage and disadvantage add an additional die, take best or worst two as appropriate.

This system capped at DC 25, however, not 30, so the 2d12 + ability + misc. made DC 25 plausible.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Considering the following house rule for the next iteration of my classless 5e hack.

No more proficiency bonus. All d20 checks, you add only the stat mod.

Nonproficient in a weapon, skill: Roll a d12 instead of a d20.
Proficient: Roll a d20 as normal.
Expertise (skills only): Roll a d30.

Features that are "prof mod" per rest will be converted to "stat mod".

To balance the general decrease in accuracy, stats will start slightly higher, scale faster, and several feats and powers will grant accuracy, generally through an extra die (like bless) or some dice shenanigans.

Any other impacts I'm missing?

I can see all of that working, at least from my un-analytical perspective. Plus, huge bonus points for the use of the d30 (or as I like to call it, the "sling bullet").

 

[TwoSix]

@TwoSix

This probably won't work for you but in a similar line one of the the systems we've worked on is:

Proficient: 2d10
Non-prof: 2d8
Expertise: 2d12

Advantage and disadvantage add an additional die, take best or worst two as appropriate.

This system capped at DC 25, however, not 30, so the 2d12 + ability + misc. made DC 25 plausible.

Yea, that's pretty solid. More reliable with a lower ceiling.

 

[jmartkdr2]

It’s a small amount of complexity that adds a large amount of depth, and it’s not something most players can’t handle. But, some players do find it easier when it’s two dice and one bonus instead of one die and two bonuses.

Out of curiosity: have you considered adding an Ability Score die and keeping flat mods for special cases? More dice = more clacky noise = more fun, after all.

 

[jmartkdr2]

It isn't a massive problem, it's more of a few second delay. I'm just curious if using different dice feels different during play.

Ideally, I'd like to boil down the system so that the die roll IS the final result, no addition needed, but I'm not quite there yet.

For this goal, I think a full-on dice pool system might be better, but that’s a lot more work to convert.

 

[ezo]

Yea, that's pretty solid. More reliable with a lower ceiling.

Given the averages:

Proficient: 11 (2d10)
Non-Prof.: 9 (2d8)
Expertise: 13 (2d12)

Each bump up is a +2 average increase, but +4 maximum increase, and no increase to the floor. The Non-Prof. 2d8 also allows the DC 15 checks and even DC 20 if someone has a high ability or magic or extra feature to help.

The maths for advantage/disadvantage are appealing as well.

 

[TwoSix]

Out of curiosity: have you considered adding an Ability Score die and keeping flat mods for special cases? More dice = more clacky noise = more fun, after all.

I have, yes. I haven't rejected it, but it has a few things I don't like.

1) Not a fan of using a d3 or d2 in between the 0 point and a d4. (Just don't like d3s and d2s.) Could just use +1, but don't love using a flat bonus sometimes when everything else is a die.

2) I liked creating boxes of "big main die" = training, flat bonus = native talent, "bonus dice" = magical helping.

3) I'm also planning (right now) on having stats scale faster to make up for lost accuracy, probably max 24 by level 10 and max 30 by level 20.

 

[Charlaquin]

Out of curiosity: have you considered adding an Ability Score die and keeping flat mods for special cases? More dice = more clacky noise = more fun, after all.

I haven’t considered it, but it could be a fun thing to try

 

[TwoSix]

Oh, and I remembered the number one reason I wanted to implement this.

Attack rolls. Specifically, the fact that you add one number to attack rolls, but a different, albeit related number to damage rolls. That trips up new people I play with, even moderately experienced people, over and over again.