D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[payn]

Who said it does?

You imply it here.

Guess my people’s champion monk who fought against corrupt authorities isn’t acting in a sufficient monk-like manner.

There isnt anything about fighting against corrupt authorities that precludes being lawful. I get what you are trying to accomplish, which is give an example of a chaotic monk, but this one isnt particualrly strong.

 

[tetrasodium]

No, I’m pretty sure you can play 5e on a grid, include a high risk of death and attrition in combat, and include unknowns lurking in the dark without greatly changing the ruleset.

Besides, 1e and 2e supported grid combat less than 5e, and 3e and 4e supported theater of the mind combat less than 5e, so I don’t know what you are talking about.

Going to quote the d&D memes thread & a great video on those two, but don't forget the wackamole healing thread/poll either.

Spoiler

5e itself actively designs against those things to such a degree that people make jokes about it. Those design choices ultimately undercut any playstyle that depends on them. Heck, even wotc has admitted that the monsters so far are not up to the task of challenging PCs while hyping the 2024/2025 books.

 

[Imaro]

Going to quote the d&D memes thread & a great video on those two, but don't forget the wackamole healing thread/poll either.

Spoiler

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5e itself actively designs against those things to such a degree that people make jokes about it. Those design choices ultimately undercut any playstyle that depends on them. Heck, even wotc has admitted that the monsters so far are not up to the task of challenging PCs while hyping the 2024/2025 books.

On a tangent... I really wish more players of 5e wouldn't assume darkvision actually allows...well... total vision in darkness.

 

[Mort]

I think that really only works if you limit the "variety of playstyles" to ones not well supported by earlier editions. If the playstyle depends on meaningful grid based combat, the risk of death & attrition in combat, or the unknowns that could be lurking in the dark then 5e is pretty actively hostile.

In my experience, if you eliminate death saves, 5e suddenly becomes extraordinarily deadly. If you slow down healing/rest rules this would be even more so.

That's assuming you even want to do so, I've found challenging players doesn't really require this.

 

[tetrasodium]

On a tangent... I really wish more players of 5e wouldn't assume darkvision actually allows...well... total vision in darkness.

While I agree, I don't think that it's worth pretending that this is an every day occurrence

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[Imaro]

While I agree, I don't think that it's worth pretending that this is an every day occurrence

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I think you're just proving my point.

 

[FrozenNorth]

You imply it here.

There isnt anything about fighting against corrupt authorities that precludes being lawful. I get what you are trying to accomplish, which is give an example of a chaotic monk, but this one isnt particualrly strong.

But here’s the thing: while you may disagree that the two-line description I suggested coded “chaotic” to you, absolutely nothing in the description coded “lawful”.

Although I suspect this isn’t your intent, the response comes off a bit “hey, you play that monk, as long as you still choose to be lawful”.

Which goes back to the original point: I cannot play a chaotic monk, for whatever value of chaotic the DM may apply, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

 

[tetrasodium]

Which goes back to the original point: I cannot play a chaotic monk, for whatever value of chaotic the DM may apply, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

That almost certainly goes back to the source material genre monks are pulled from. Doing that would charge into demonic cultivator territory.

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Unfortunately monk is in a really awkward place because it gets so many of the non demonic cultivator perks and none of the strings that accompany them. You can't do it with a monk because the gm can't either, a few sidebars (or even a UA) on cultivation elements would go a long way there.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Going to quote the d&D memes thread & a great video on those two, but don't forget the wackamole healing thread/poll either.

Well if a meme says it, it must be true.

Let’s start with Claim 1: hard to kill PCs.

Monsters that are higher level than the PCs in large quantities. Monsters that chase after the PCs and deny them a long rest. A banshee backed up with 6 will o’ wisps (both in the 5e MM) against a 4 person party. 10 Shadows (also in the 5e MM). Traps and hazards that separate the PCs into two groups that find it difficult to reunite.

Moving on with Claim 2: things that lurk in the dark.

If the party has darkvision, they still have disadvantage on Perception checks in the dim light. Any monster with a high Stealth is therefore going to fairly easily “lurk in the dark”. Combined with point 1, this will challenge the party.

 

[FrozenNorth]

In my experience, if you eliminate death saves, 5e suddenly becomes extraordinarily deadly. If you slow down healing/rest rules this would be even more so.

That's assuming you even want to do so, I've found challenging players doesn't really require this.

True, it my response I assumed no rule modifications, but there are quite a few fairly simple rules changes to make game more deadly. To be honest, I would have no issues if the 2024 DMG had a sidebar summarizing 5 rules to make the game deadlier.