D&D General How Often Should a PC Die in D&D 5e?

[Oofta]

I think the op question is phrased wrong. It's not about how often PCs SHOULD die. I think many of us GMs cheer on our party and don't want anyone to die.

It's more about the possibility that PCs COULD die. I've played a lot of Savage Worlds over the last years, and even if it's not a super deadly system with Bennies etc it's also a very swingy system where death actually can happen.

I agree that this is more about how often PCs could die but there are game systems that practically guarantee a very lethal game where you go through multiple characters as the norm.

But lately I've become more and more invested in DCC and OSR games. And a big part of that is that it's simply more fun and satisfying for me to GM games where PC death is a real risk and motivating force for players to be smart, tactical and not hobo rush every encounter, and instead seek smart ways to handle encounters.


With GM work and house ruling you can work real risk of death into any system, but it's not how for example raw 5e is constructed.

I disagree with this. Level of lethality in D&D games of all editions has largely depended on the DM and group and always have. Combats in my games vary significantly, sometimes it's rush into the burning building to save the day, other times one or more PCs will die if they don't take a careful approach. I will clearly broadcast if a super deadly combat is ahead or provide an escape route. My players know me well enough to believe me and plan accordingly.

 

[ezo]

And this leads me back to claims of 5e's lethality being to low or non-existant... how does one determine this?

Did you not see my list upthread?

Play RAW according to the design philosophy of 5E (2014 anyway...) and barring insanely bad luck with the dice rolls and/or very poor judgement by players in how they use PC features, after 2nd or 3rd level PCs just don't die IME.

This is often countered by the DM making the game potentially more lethal:

1. ignoring the encounter design guidelines (which 2024 changed I hear) by using more deadly and beyond deadly encounters
2. using gritty variants such as spending HD on long rests, changing resting times but keeping time pressure up
3. nerfing features, spells, etc. (such as leomund's hut and revivify
4. homebrewing classes, features, creatures, etc.

The trick is finding the point which brings the game into the balance you want between ease and lethality.

 

[prabe]

I didn't know PC death was possible in 5e after level 2.

If you think PCs can't die in D&D 5e, you're not trying hard enough.

 

[prabe]

And this leads me back to claims of 5e's lethality being to low or non-existant... how does one determine this?

I can't (and won't even try to) speak to how anyone else could or would determine D&D 5e's lethality, but I personally can see how close the parties I'm DMing for come to being wiped. The game is, or at least can be, exactly as lethal as a given DM wants, same as previous editions, IME.

 

[Imaro]

Which circles me back around to my first response to you on this. It takes a lot more for me to challenge the players than in past editions. If it takes a lot more to challenge them, the default lethality is significantly lower.

Or you don't grasp the system as well... or they work together better... or etc. Just because it takes more for you to challenge the characters doesn't necessarily mean the lethality of the system is less.

 

[ezo]

Or you don't grasp the system as well... or they work together better... or etc. Just because it takes more for you to challenge the characters doesn't necessarily mean the lethality of the system is less.

If it was one or two individuals who had this issue, I would agree. But it isn't.

There are many of us who feel, given use as designed, 5E is easy and harder to challenge PCs, particularly after a certain level. Which is why so many people talk about 5E and it being "easy mode" by default.

This was not true in prior editions IME, at least.

FWIW, if anything, my players in 5E are not as "skilled (as D&D players)" as my players in prior editions because they don't have to be--the game is just easier by design overall.

 

[Imaro]

Did you not see my list upthread?

Play RAW according to the design philosophy of 5E (2014 anyway...) and barring insanely bad luck with the dice rolls and/or very poor judgement by players in how they use PC features, after 2nd or 3rd level PCs just don't die IME.

Wait shouldn't bad luck and/or very poor decisions be what causes PC death? That at least seems to be the majority sentiment in this thread.

 

[Imaro]

FWIW, if anything, my players in 5E are not as "skilled (as D&D players)" as my players in prior editions because they don't have to be--the game is just easier by design overall.

I think playing newer editions of D&D vs older requires different types of skilled play.

 

[prabe]

Wait shouldn't bad luck and/or very poor decisions be what causes PC death? That at least seems to be the majority sentiment in this thread.

I personally would say a run of bad luck (to include good rolls on the DM's part) and/or a sequence of bad (or at least dubious) decisions. Just to sort of separate that from one bad roll or choice being enough. This seems at least consistent with the sentiment you're pointing to.

 

[Reynard]

I think playing newer editions of D&D vs older requires different types of skilled play.

I think playstyle determines the nature of "skilled play" regardless of edition -- if relevant at all.