D&D General How Often Should a PC Die in D&D 5e?

[DarkCrisis]

Or the 1e games I played in, in 1986 and thereabouts, and the one I was playing in when 3e came out, just weren't stereotypical meatgrinders.

So, like he said, Kids Gloves.

 

[Maxperson]

Or the 1e games I played in, in 1986 and thereabouts, and the one I was playing in when 3e came out, just weren't stereotypical meatgrinders.

I'm not even talking about a meat grinder, though. Just a typical encounter at 1st level was deadly no matter what it was, because low hit points and few abilities. I've seen 1st level TPKs against 3 or 4 orcs just because we didn't roll all that well. Not even badly. Just not well.

Those games must have been very atypical for 1e games. It would have been interesting to play in one of those, though. My 1e DMs were pretty typical.

 

[Maxperson]

So, like he said, Kids Gloves.

Or maybe political. Atypical doesn't necessarily mean kid gloves, but definitely not a typical style 1e game.

 

[prabe]

So, like he said, Kids Gloves.

No more than I am, not killing PCs in my 5e games right out of the gate. The DM in 5e can kill the PCs whenever he wants, just as the DM in 1e could. The DM in those 1e games wasn't choosing to, and neither am I.

 

[prabe]

I'm not even talking about a meat grinder, though. Just a typical encounter at 1st level was deadly no matter what it was, because low hit points and few abilities. I've seen 1st level TPKs against 3 or 4 orcs just because we didn't roll all that well. Not even badly. Just not well.

Those games must have been very atypical for 1e games. It would have been interesting to play in one of those, though. My 1e DMs were pretty typical.

Oh we did a reasonable amount of fighting, and our share of screwing up the setting, and not really all that much politics--I do not remember them as "political games," at any rate. In running my 5e games I am very much taking those 1e games as my model, or at least the foundation of my model.

 

[Autumnal]

If it isn't deadly, why play? Seriously. You can just toss the books & dice & play Pretend™ but that 'aint D&D

I’ve got some bad news. Unless you are doing things to the players that could get you in serious trouble with law enforcement, it’s all Pretend anyway. Even if you have rules and dice. Those are tools you agree to use, but they don’t make deaths even 1% more real. Sorry to have to break it to you.

 

[ezo]

Maybe you were joking, maybe I wasn't, maybe tone and nuance go to the Internet to die.

Deleted.

 

[Oofta]

I'm not even talking about a meat grinder, though. Just a typical encounter at 1st level was deadly no matter what it was, because low hit points and few abilities. I've seen 1st level TPKs against 3 or 4 orcs just because we didn't roll all that well. Not even badly. Just not well.

Those games must have been very atypical for 1e games. It would have been interesting to play in one of those, though. My 1e DMs were pretty typical.

Typical for you, perhaps. The DM still decided what to throw and when. For that matter I've also played a PC that died at first level. Admittedly it was an elf, so it was destined to happen in any edition, but still.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

I agree that this is more about how often PCs could die but there are game systems that practically guarantee a very lethal game where you go through multiple characters as the norm.



I disagree with this. Level of lethality in D&D games of all editions has largely depended on the DM and group and always have. Combats in my games vary significantly, sometimes it's rush into the burning building to save the day, other times one or more PCs will die if they don't take a careful approach. I will clearly broadcast if a super deadly combat is ahead or provide an escape route. My players know me well enough to believe me and plan accordingly.

Seems to me that you agree with me, if you are talking 5e, since as I wrote, you as GM are making the game deadly. Or are you telling me that the 5e CR system, which is what should guide us to make a fair assessment of the system, is deadly as written?

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

OK so let me ask... if it's not about actual death but instead possibility... how are you determining system A is more lethal than system B? What's the yardstick?

A simple yardstick is what the game tells you. In 5e you have the CR system that tells us when an encounter is supposed to be deadly. Which it is not, and make us draw conclusions about the games deadliness, ie, a normal PC won't die from a deadly encounter..

And then we have early games, or OSR stuff, that tells you that this game is not balanced, the players must know when to run from an encounter that will kill them.

Pretty clear to me.