D&D (2024) Hazirawn/flaming Weapon+ Pact of the Blade

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, it's magic, but do we need every sword turn to light sabre?

I think that ignoring resistance/immunity to non-magical damage is enough for a magic weapon or magic infused attack

Resistance to non-magical weapons is being depreciated. Hence the change. The weapon doesn't have to look like a lightsabre for it's damage to be magical.

 

[Horwath]

Resistance to non-magical weapons is being removed. Hence the change. The weapon doesn't have to look like a lightsabre for it's damage to be magical.

if it's force/radiant kind of does

 

[Paul Farquhar]

if it's force/radiant kind of does

No, it doesn't. A lot of monster claws now do force damage. They don't look any different than they did before. It just means devils and demons can punch each other. "Force" is just what was called "magic" damage in earlier editions. It doesn't have to look like anything special. Since there is no mention of the appearance of the warlock weapon changing, we can assume it does not.

 

[Horwath]

No, it doesn't. A lot of monster claws now do force damage. They don't look any different than they did before. It just means devils and demons can punch each other. "Force" is just what was called "magic" damage in earlier editions. It doesn't have to look like anything special. Since there is no mention of the appearance of the warlock weapon changing, we can assume it does not.

we can agree to disagree, force is telekinesis, it's bigby's hand or magic missile.
it's immaterial.

 

[ECMO3]

It's normal damage type is slashing. Your quote implies the opposite of your reading. The weapon itself as an extra rule does extra Necrotic damage on a hit.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic longsword is slashing.

"Normal" damage for a +1 Longsword is slashing.

"Normal" damage for a Viscous Longsword is slashing (just more of it).

"Normal" damage for a Sunblade Longsword is Radiant.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic Dagger is piercing

"Normal" damage for Dragontooth Dagger is piercing and acid.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic quarterstaff is bludgeoning.

"Normal" damage for a Staff of Striking is Bludgeoning and Force.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic Javelin is piercing.

"Normal" damage for a Javelin of Lightning is either piercing or Lightning

That is my interpretation of "normal" as it pertains to a Pact Weapon.

 

[ECMO3]

No, it doesn't. A lot of monster claws now do force damage. They don't look any different than they did before. It just means devils and demons can punch each other. "Force" is just what was called "magic" damage in earlier editions. It doesn't have to look like anything special. Since there is no mention of the appearance of the warlock weapon changing, we can assume it does not.

All indications are this is going to be the case in the new Monster Manual and the numerous ways to change/augment BPS damage (Truestrike, Pact of Blade, Hunter's Mark, Empowered Strikes) implicitly support this assumption.

What this really means though is it is a huge nerf for non-magic Fighter and Barbarian builds. Less of a nerf for Rangers, Paladins or anyone with access to Truestrike. It used to be that DMs had to give Fighters and Barbarians magic weapons to keep up, now they will be behind even with the generic +1/+2 weapons.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

"Normal" damage for a non-magic longsword is slashing.

"Normal" damage for a +1 Longsword is slashing.

"Normal" damage for a Viscous Longsword is slashing (just more of it).

"Normal" damage for a Sunblade Longsword is Radiant.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic Dagger is piercing

"Normal" damage for Dragontooth Dagger is piercing and acid.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic quarterstaff is bludgeoning.

"Normal" damage for a Staff of Striking is Bludgeoning and Force.

"Normal" damage for a non-magic Javelin is piercing.

"Normal" damage for a Javelin of Lightning is either piercing or Lightning

That is my interpretation of "normal" as it pertains to a Pact Weapon.

It says "its normal damage type" not normal damage. Damage type is what the weapon's default damage is like bludgeoning or piercing this has a definition. Some magic weapons or other stuff change a weapon's damage type. A Dragontooth Dagger does not change the weapon's damage type it just makes the weapon deal bonus acid damage on a hit, and so would not be affected by something that changed the type.

 

[ECMO3]

It says "its normal damage type" not normal damage.

Ok put "type" after every line in my post above.

The normal damage type for a Dragontooth Dagger is Piercing and acid.

Damage type is what the weapon's default damage is like bludgeoning or piercing this has a definition. Some magic weapons or other stuff change a weapon's damage type. A Dragontooth Dagger does not change the weapon's damage type it just makes the weapon deal bonus acid damage on a hit, and so would not be affected by something that changed the type.

The default damage for a Dragontooth Dagger is 1d4 piercing + 1d6 acid.

There is a distinction in the rules between conjuring a pact weapon and creating a bond with a magic weapon. When you do the latter you are not conjuring a "default" non-magic weapon, you are bonding with a specific magic weapon and the damage done by that specific magic weapon is the default damage for that specific magic weapon.

Bonding with a Dragontooth Dagger is fundamentally different in the rules then conjuring a dagger.

Moreover, if this is the tact you are taking what is the "normal damage type" of a Sunblade or a Staff of the Adder?

Finally, what do you do about the magic bonus? If you are only focused on the "default damage type" of the base non-magic weapon template itself specifically, then magic damage is added, just like other dice are added. A Dagger +1 deals 1d4 "default dagger" damage, the extra 1 is bonus damage from the magic. So if I use pact of the blade to bond with a +1 dagger with my 20 charisma Warlock and change damage to psychic, that would mean I do 1d4 psychic + 6 piercing? That makes no sense, but it is what is required to accept your interpretation.

If I can't change the 1d6 bonus acid damage on my Dragontooth Dagger, why can I change the 1 magic bonus on my +1 Dagger?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If I can't change the 1d6 bonus acid damage on my Dragontooth Dagger, why can I change the 1 magic bonus on my +1 Dagger

Yes, because that adds to the weapons normal damage, doing the same type of damage.

Sneak attack damage is also converted, since it adds to the weapons normal damage. Paladin smites are not.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, because that adds to the weapons normal damage, doing the same type of damage.

Sneak attack damage is also converted, since it adds to the weapons normal damage. Paladin smites are not.

Point.

I was more or less sure about the initial weapon damage.

But didn't think about sneak attack.

Cheers.