D&D 5E Is Intimidate the worse skill in the game?

[I'm A Banana]

Don't make me get up on my soapbox about how bad D&D's skill system has been for the last 25 years.

 

[Gradine]

Don't make me get up on my soapbox about how bad D&D's skill system has been for the last 25 years.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Thread title. All this talk about alternate ability use on skills brought up the old 'use STR for Intimidate' and it got me thinking about Intimidate and how is SUCKS.

Animal Handling is a pretty close second because more DM and players forget how important it would actually be in a pre-steam society and make it far too situational... but I still think Intimidate is worse.

The reason is that Intimidate will usually make things worse in 75% of the time you try to use it to force someone to do something. If you fail you usually shut down the entire social encounter right then and there, and even if you do succeed, that NPC is probably gonna hate you for quite a while. It's almost always a bad idea unless you're dealing with someone you're ready to fight.

At best it can be used to make enemies surrender and cut down the 'mopping up' phase of combat? But usually the DC isn't gonna be easy, and how can you trust someone who would do or say anything so you don't kill them?

Maybe Intimidate should have been rolled into Persuasion and just be a way to go about it and be left to the DM, like a lot of thing in 5e...

Anyway, discuss!

Usually used after a fight to gain information...

or to avoid a fight by intimidating them...

 

[CreamCloud0]

I basically view Persuasion, Deception and Intimidation as all the same output: a character getting something that they want from a NPC through dialogue.

The difference is the consequence of success and failure for each approach.

I think the rulebooks would benefit from some compare and contrast in the skills chapters on how some similar seeming skills are better applied to different tasks and have different results when used (both when successful and when not), athletics and acrobatics, perception and investigation, and of course persuasion and intimidation are prime targets of needing these kinds of distinctions.

 

[Minigiant]

Don't make me get up on my soapbox about how bad D&D's skill system has been for the last 25 years.

4e had the best and only working skill system of any D&D, D&D-like, or D&D clone

 

[UngeheuerLich]

4e had the best and only working skill system of any D&D, D&D-like, or D&D clone

3e was better...

Even 5e is better.

 

[Minigiant]

Again part of the issue is the 5e designers never attempted to make Intimidate near equally useful as the other skills.

4e was forced to ponder each skill when they ponder skill powers. Every skill had powers. So they had to think up 5 uses for every skill.

Ominous Threat: You threaten someone to battle. They are Marked and one ally marked by the target lose their mark.
Demoralize Foe: You scare someone causing a penalty to their attacks
Everyone Move: You shout at everyone near and everyone safely backs away from you.
Try the Stick: You threaten someone during diplomacy. When the DM calls for a Persuasion roll, you make it an Intimidation roll.
Snap out of it: You smack and scare an ally. Your ally gets to make another saving throw roll against dazes, fear, and stuns.

4e actually let its Heal skill heal.

 

[Minigiant]

3e was better...

Even 5e is better.

False
So false.

In 4e... none of the skills were useless and didn't scale.

4e's skill system blows 5e's and 3e's out of the water.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

False
So false.

In 4e... none of the skills were useless and didn't scale.

4e's skill system blows 5e's and 3e's out of the water.

Urgh. No. Disagree.
Half level bonus to everything was a mess.

 

[Minigiant]

Urgh. No. Disagree.
Half level bonus to everything was a mess.

Better than trying to contain all check DC between 10 and 20, failing, and removing or not assigning 90% of the static DCs sane numbers if at all in order to chase the goal on small number modifiers...
...
...
...
then failing at it.

I mean that's why this topic exists.

5e's skill system created an Intimidate skill because it wanted to have one to look at and point to.
However it went out of its way to not explain what the point of an Intimidation skill is, how its plays, how it differs from other skills in the game, story, or world.