What is an "adventure hook"? And is that a "diegetic" concept - do people in the imagined world of your RPGing really wander around looing for "hooks" to motivate them into adventurous action?
D&D General How Often Should a PC Die in D&D 5e?
- Thread starter Imaro
- Start date
The distinction between Henchmen and Hirelings is set out in the AD&D PHB (p 39). The same distinction is found in the DMG, and also in B/X (though in that version of the classic game, the term used is "Retainers" rather than "Henchmen"):
HIRELINGS
At any time, a character may attempt to hire various different sorts of workers, servants, or guards. . . . Typical hirelings are:
Alchemist
Armorer
Bearer
Blacksmith
Crossbowman
Engineer
Linkboy
Man-at-arms
Steward
Teamster
Valet
. . . Employment can be by the hour, day, week, month, or year according to the desires of the character and agreeability of the persons to be hired. . . .
Note that the number of hirelings is in no way limited by charisma, and hirelings differ considerably from henchmen who are discussed immediately hereafter. The loyalty of hirelings is quite similar to that of henchmen, though, and the discussion of the loyalty of henchmen can be applied to hirelings of all sorts. . . .
HENCHMEN
. . . A henchman is a more or less devoted follower of a character. In return for the use of his or her abilities and talents, the henchman receives support, lodging, and a share of his or her master’s or mistress‘ earnings - in the form of stipends or as a shore of treasure taken. Henchmen are always of a character race and character class, but are never player characters.
At any time, a character may attempt to hire various different sorts of workers, servants, or guards. . . . Typical hirelings are:
Alchemist
Armorer
Bearer
Blacksmith
Crossbowman
Engineer
Linkboy
Man-at-arms
Steward
Teamster
Valet
. . . Employment can be by the hour, day, week, month, or year according to the desires of the character and agreeability of the persons to be hired. . . .
Note that the number of hirelings is in no way limited by charisma, and hirelings differ considerably from henchmen who are discussed immediately hereafter. The loyalty of hirelings is quite similar to that of henchmen, though, and the discussion of the loyalty of henchmen can be applied to hirelings of all sorts. . . .
HENCHMEN
. . . A henchman is a more or less devoted follower of a character. In return for the use of his or her abilities and talents, the henchman receives support, lodging, and a share of his or her master’s or mistress‘ earnings - in the form of stipends or as a shore of treasure taken. Henchmen are always of a character race and character class, but are never player characters.
It's not correct, however, that hirelings "stay with the horses". Men-at-arms, crossbowmen and linkboys (for instance) can be expected to enter a dungeon so as to do their jobs.
Ulorian - Agent of Chaos
Legend
Exactly. This is the illusion of choice, except with the veil drawn across the DM's eyes instead of the players'. You're playing a game! By definition you can't get 100% verisimilitude. And why you'd want that anyway is beyond me... but I understand and respect that everyone has different likes and wants.
KYRON45
Hero
Isn’t the term “diegetic” ironic in this conversation?
“occurring within the context of the story and able to be heard by the characters.”
Well I don't particularly like the term "diegetic" in the context of RPGing, given that RPGs are not films. But it seems to be the only bit of jargon that doesn't attract attacks for the use of jargon!Isn’t the term “diegetic” ironic in this conversation?
“occurring within the context of the story and able to be heard by the characters.”
KYRON45
Hero
As long as we all keep redefining things to meet our needs, i think we'll all be ok.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
The term adventure hook is pretty common in gaming parlance. Do you really not know what it means, or is this another trap set to demonstrate problems or hypocrisy with my favored playstyle?
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
The inability to get 100% verisimilitude does not mean that striving for as much verisimilitude as you can get is pointless. Story Now isn't fun for me, but you don't see me attacking the playstyle.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Much appreciated. As noted, this is my first time hearing of this sharp distinction. It still mildly surprises me, as hired help in early editions has come up many times over the years and I've not seen anyone mention the distinct meanings before. But only mildly. It would seem the essence of the claim, namely that "henchmen" get either a share of their master's earnings or a share of treasure collected whereas "hirelings" do not, is still correct. Further, "henchmen" really are effectively PCs-in-waiting since they must be of a PC class and race (though this limitation was rather more porous at Gygax's actual tables, based on the balrog PC and such.) That still doesn't negate my criticism thereof, that hired help is crafted and played by the DM, so character death means you must now abandon the story you wanted to tell and start telling a story written by someone else, but it's an interesting thing to learn regardless.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
While 100% may not be possible, that's not the same as saying that one should definitely settle for only 50%; it simply means that there will be some "willing suspension of disbelief", to use what I hope is an acceptable phrase.
But it does mean that a maximalist attitude toward verisimilitude, especially if that maximalism makes demands that affect the game design that applies to everyone, must make a case for why it should be that we should pursue 99.9999% as opposed to 90% or 99% or 99.9% or whatever. And that, @Micah Sweet , is where the argument in your most recent post breaks down. You are not exclusively advocating for being allowed to play your way while others play theirs, with no cost to anyone; you have many times places very strong demands on what the system itself must do or not do inherently, under all circumstances, which is a restriction on what others can do, experience, achieve, etc.
Again, this does not and cannot mean that you should just accept whatever pittance of verisimilitude you can get. That would be incredibly insulting to you. You very much should advocate for your interests! But in that advocacy, if you're going to expect others to be mindful of the cost to your fun because of their requests (or demands, or whatever else), then the same applies in the other direction. There may be some few things—I sincerely hope it is very few—where you may be asked accept that the massive cost to them for adding/removing something is more harmful than a minor cost to you for not doing so.
And, to be clear, I understand that I have made some strong demands here for cases when I'm a player. I have never had an issue with most of these apart from character deaths (e.g. CvC/PvP is quite rare at most tables today for a reason), but that doesn't mean they couldn't ever be an issue. I do try to jump in front of any such thing early, but I'm not perfect. That said, these really are at-table issues, not game-design issues, and none of the "fixes" I've mentioned require anything in the rules themselves to implement.
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