D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[dave2008]

Or they could have just opened Greyhawk up on the Guild (along with all their other settings IMO) and used that space for the monster rules as you suggest.

The monster rules don't need to fill up that much space! It was not a space issue IMO. Of course I can't really figure out why without going to nefarious speculation and that is not where I like to go!

 

[dave2008]

They should have done the work and put it in the DMG IMO.

probably

 

[grimmgoose]

FWIW, the poor monster creation rules in 5E (compared to how fun it was in 4E) is what started me on the road to trying out new systems.

Monster creation is probably my least favorite part of 5E prep. It's a slog, it's unintuitive, and it isn't fun. I used to daydream about 4E monsters at work, jotting down fun Powers and interactions. I actively avoid creating monsters in 5E (if I have to, I'll use Forge of Foes or I'll brute-force an AI to do it for me).

 

[dave2008]

FWIW, the poor monster creation rules in 5E (compared to how fun it was in 4E) is what started me on the road to trying out new systems.

Monster creation is probably my least favorite part of 5E prep. It's a slog, it's unintuitive, and it isn't fun. I used to daydream about 4E monsters at work, jotting down fun Powers and interactions. I actively avoid creating monsters in 5E (if I have to, I'll use Forge of Foes or I'll brute-force an AI to do it for me).

well, back in the day you would have never played D&D then! It took 20+ years to get any type of real monster building rules (3e) and those as complex as building a PC - it could be horrible. Then 4e came out with simple streamlined monster creation rules and some loved it and some hated it. Personally I like 5e's monster creation rules better in some respects than 4e's simplified rules, but everyone has different needs.

 

[Imaro]

Yeah, Bastions are a player-facing tool they put in the DMG.

I get why it’s not in the PHB, but put it in the first supplement, not the DMG.

Nah I'm good... its something I don't already have in my 2014 books (which are still available for purchase from a multitude of places.).

 

[grimmgoose]

Nah I'm good... its something I don't already have in my 2014 books (which are still available for purchase from a multitude of places.).

I mean, that could be said about a lot of things. 5E still doesn't have a functioning Mass Battle system.

My main gripe: it's not a DM-facing system, so don't put in the DMG. If the reasoning is, "well, it's here because it's not anywhere else!" is a pretty bad reason.

Put DM things in the DMG.

 

[Maxperson]

The bugbear lost the Brute trait cause it was just words to say why it's attack did more damage, when they can just make the bugbear do more damage.

The why is important. Getting rid of the why's that different monsters do more damage takes away some of what makes those monsters different and interesting. This is a move towards blandness, not a move towards goodness.

 

[Imaro]

I mean, that could be said about a lot of things. 5E still doesn't have a functioning Mass Battle system.

Yes it could and?

A Mass Battle System is no more or less valid than the Bastions system... my point is I'm glad they did something different and new as opposed to a direct updated reprint.
 

My main gripe: it's not a DM-facing system, so don't put in the DMG. If the reasoning is, "well, it's here because it's not anywhere else!" is a pretty bad reason.

Put DM things in the DMG.

It's an optional system the DM decides whether to include that is mainly utilized by players... which is exactly what many of the optional rules in 2014 were. The point is it's optional and has campaign wide ramifications... so yeah the DMG seems like the right place.

 

[mamba]

Greyhawk and Bastions ate the DM toolbox chapter.

unfortunately that is the case

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes it could and?

A Mass Battle System is no more or less valid than the Bastions system... my point is I'm glad they did something different and new as opposed to a direct updated reprint.
 


It's an optional system the DM decides whether to include that is mainly utilized by players... which is exactly what many of the optional rules in 2014 were. The point is it's optional and has campaign wide ramifications... so yeah the DMG seems like the right place.

Except most of the other optional rules have been removed, so the bastions system feels out of place IMO. They changed the purpose of the DMG but still have this proud nail to use as a selling point for players.